114 replies to this topic

[Thorney]

Oz will be 16" fronts. I've chased for further details from Oz today.

[Crossy]

Cheers look forward to hearing more on progress.

[2-20]

I know taht JT can get me those,
but i have good contacts to a local Lotus Dealer, so i think, i can get them here for a better price (also shipping costs are not good for me, since i´m living in austria)
so would be kind of you, if anyone could give me the Lotus part number.

Maybe via pm?

Michi

From what i know:

Front A117C6002F
Rear A117D6005F.

But check if these numbers are correct

Phil

[2-20]

Could we get some pictures of the Elise hubs without the wheel and disc ??

I took a couple of photos of one mounted on the front over the weekend when working on the brakes.

Thanks for the pictures

[cyberman]

Well I have just got the VXT back after the Lotus hub fit, Elise Parts ali bell disks, Mintex 1144 pads, Exige S2 wheels with A048R LTS rubber and front 5mm ali spacers. The change to the sprung / unsprung weight ratios is good. We weighed the assemblies removed from the car and then weighed the new assemblies before fitting. The Bridgestones were half-worn and the A048Rs brand new. These are the figures:

Rear VX removed per corner 31.95kgs
Lotus replacements 25.15kgs
Weight saving 6.8kgs

Front VX removed per corner 28.35kgs
Lotus replacements 22.99kgs
Weight saving 5.36kgs

So a combined weight saving of 24.32kgs

This brings the system weight down to 885.7kgs and a change in unsprung / sprung weight ratio from 120.6 / 910 = 0.133 to 96.28 / 885.7 = 0.109 which is quite significant. The immediate implication is that only ~80% as much energy will be launched towards the chassis when we hit a bump and cause a wheel to deflect vertically.

This is what it looks like:



I haven't really got it bedded in yet as I've only done about 50 miles. First impressions are very good. There is no issue with offsets and no body binding. The front spacers are unnecessary for clearance but centre the wider tyre around the centre line of the old.

The car feels much lighter on handling and turns in almost too cheerfully. It feels razor sharp on pointing. Most of the mid-range understeer seems to have gone although I haven't yet managed to push it to the limit in a big bend as the road was unknown and the traffic was way too much. However, I haven't managed to get within cooyee of unsettling the A048Rs and I definitely would have been sliding the Bridgestones.

I managed to get quite a bit of heat into the tyres even on the road. I didn't do a controlled temp measurement - I only thought to stick my hand on the rears a couple of minutes after getting home but they felt about 48-50C to me. I had to take the Bridgestones round Bedford to get them to the same temperature. I'll check it with a pyro over the weekend. I don't suppose they will last awfully long at this rate. Watch this space for the first rain report.

The brakes are still bedding. I don't think they are any better than the Pagid 16 groove / SBS pad so far and maybe not as good but will report after another 100 miles. They are well behaved and do not squeak or pull. They work consistently from cold to hot. Maybe the ABS cuts in earlier but its too soon to tell yet. They do not make the wonderful thrumming sound the Pagid 16 groove / SBS combo made. Pity, but the Pagids had to go they weighed about a ton apiece.

It runs absolutely without road noise on a decent surface. Energy transmitted to the chassis is significantly reduced. I almost feel that the handling and grip are so improved that with only the stage 3 tune its now under-powered..... It is suicidally quick - if one is going to insist on driving near the limit then this has raised the limit and the time available to recognise and deal with a cock-up has been reduced. Hrrm. Maybe a Renault 5 would be better after all....

Kind regards - Ian

Edited by cyberman, 24 March 2005 - 07:51 PM.

[Jim_Cross]

Sounds great...more pics! It's funny, seeing the Exige wheels on a VX, I'd never guess which car they came from. Get rid of those Lotus badges though

[The Knobs]

Can you put a full picture of the car up please. Now i could be tempted with those as i'm not really a fan of black wheels, but what i can see looks just right Any chance of an idea of costs

[garyk220]

Looks fantastic Ian. First time I've seen the Exige lightweight wheel option, very nice And thanks for posting the weight differences. I may have underestimated the weight saving on mine a little. Need to get it weighed properly.

[cyberman]

OK, here are a couple more pics:



and a front wheel detail:



and for those curious about the cost:



The finish on the Exige wheel is rather matt and I am not sure I wouldn't prefer bright.

Although I wouldn't generally waste paint on a caliper, having opened up the wheel box so much visually it seemed the only thing to do. I am not quite convinced about how its been done (I don't like painting bolts) but it looks OK. Now I only need to work out how to keep the whole wheel arch inner gleaming.

I suppose this pushes me into the next bracket in the "What have you spent on your car" poll.

I thought the lads down at Brook-Kensington did a fair job and they were pretty responsive and helpful. I'll comment further if anything falls off....

As to the Lotus caps, hrrm, no I think I'll keep them. They are *Lotus* wheels. I am told they are a bitch to remove. The little flash of colour is OK. I don't suffer from reverse snobbery. I don't think you can get a Gryphon cap to fit. If it said OZ would I remove it?

Kind regards - Ian

Edited by cyberman, 25 March 2005 - 07:26 PM.

[The Knobs]

If only i had known, i live about half a mile from there, i could have seen them in the flesh

[cyberman]

BK have some on a racing Exige in the stable. I think they would be keen to do some more of these conversions. If you wanted to pop in I am sure they would be glad to show you. I don't think the prices are too bad. The wheels were quite a saving over the local Lotus dealers quote and I haven't seen the hubs cheaper anywhere. The workshop manager is called Simon and seems a reasonable bloke.

[GF ORCE8]

Hi looking on the costs... you ahve only changed the Hubs without the carriers right? so with the Lotus hubcarriers you´d have saved another unsprung weight.. Why did you go for the hubs only?

[Thorney]

Bloody hell. I paid Brooke Kensington over £97 each for the hubs when I bought 4 sets so I'm fcuking well ringing Simon over this

[barrybethel]

Ian it looks really nice mate. Do your weight calculations take into account the new disc assemblies?

[cyberman]

Yes, we just took off a corner, dumped it on the scales and then reversed the process. I don't know if the Pagid 16 groove disk (which I had on) is heavier than OEM but they weighed a ton. The Elise Ali bells disks are about .6kg lighter than standard. Glad you like the way it looks for I am pretty pleased with it. Those wheels do look nice but the main thing is the ride which is hugely better: no more bump rubber banging on potholes as the wheels don't get so much momentum going. Hell of a lot less road noise. Absolutely no tramlining. I am less convinced about the disk pad / combo. They do work and I haven't quite got them settled yet. But the 1144s almost seem to grab for 1/2 a second when cold: it could be my heavy foot of course and the perceptual difference from the SBS pad which was a bit the other way. Certainly the effect is sufficiently noticeable for me to have temporarily altered my driving style to use them firmly rather than feathering them around town. I'll get them bedded later on and give a more coherent report then. Regards - Ian

[cyberman]

With the Lotus hubcarriers you´d have saved another unsprung weight.

Well, mainly because I wasn't offered them. The deal really came together around the parts that Brooke-Kensington had in stock. This made it quick and easy to do. Ordering bits would have delayed it and neither of us wanted that.

How much weight would be saved by changing the hub carriers? I might do that later. For now I am pretty pleased with the result.

Kind regards - Ian

[Whiteboy]

Ian I love the look of those wheels they look fantastic. When I saw how much they cost my first impression was but on reflection with the rest of the work done that is not bad. I just wonder what they would like black.

[cyberman]

I just wonder what they would like black.

Glad you like it.

Black? I just did a quick photoshop job. I have mixed feelings about it. It does look quite eye-catching. But, it also made me think they had been biffed and been given a quick blow over to make them respectable for the weekend.

I'd do it on a track car but probably not on the road. Maybe I'm getting a bit conservative in my dotage.

Ian

[cyberman]

Hrrm Well its all much better settled down now and we have had some rain so I thought I would give a supplementary report. Basically, I am still very happy with the weight loss and the tyres. That all works well. The rubber in the wet (no standing water when cold yet tried) was unexceptionable and gripped well. I was quite happy to push it along and they didn't do anything perverse at all. I have noticed that the A048R sidewalls are much more flexible than the Potenzas. The fronts help deal with an annoying patter I had on some surfaces with the single control Nitrons. There is work still to do here. The rears are definitely more supple and help soak up some bumps. However, I have actually detected sidewal wind-up on the rears.... Its not an issue but it is present and it was exposed (to me) in an odd way. I was wellying it in the damp in 2nd to see what sticktion I actually got and it just broke away on the right rear. The LSD immediately grabbed it and transferred power to the nearside (the torque biasing function may be continuous but major mode transition is very detectable). The NS wheel promptly and very briefly accelerated before locking everything down. I don't think it actually come unstuck from the road surface but it did pick up enough energy to just induce a little tiny "turn right" vector before stabilising. I am sure (some at least) of the vector came from energy stored in the "wound up" side wall. This is an event that lasted in total about 250mSec: one was an amused (and retrospective) observer not a participant. The net effect was a rear end left / right / settled wriggle that affected the drivers bum more than anything else - 1 inch type deviations. I'll have to try and get a photograph to prove it. Any way the tyres are a blast and the wheels are still pretty to me. The brakes, OTOH, are something else. I shall be having them to pieces in the next couple of days as they are not good. The supposed 1144s functioned OK but not as well as the SBS in my view when first installed and absolutely not as well as reports from others would suggest. A couple of tanks later and they have become the most unpleasant low speed brakes I have ever had. They shriek, scream, yell, grate and grind unless you really lean on them. I mean they are noiser than you would believe possible. Then a lot worse than that. If they are hot they are quiet: I don't like having to drive round town with one foot on the throttle and the other on the brake in order to keep them warm enough not to embarass me. Whatever is in those calipers and however it was fitted it is unfit for employment in a gentleman's carriage. Whether they are "unfit for purpose" by way of the Sale of Goods Act is another issue and I shall be asking a TSO. You may infer from the above that my enthusiasm for the quality of the work carried out recently has dropped off. It is also unfortunate that the Road Fund License went missing whilst the car was with the company: an issue they deny when questioned. It just prejudices one's view when multiple things go wrong. Kind regards - Ian

Edited by cyberman, 03 April 2005 - 10:19 AM.

[Thorney]

Ian, you're going through some of the issues I did......hence the decision to work with AP directly on the brake kit.