56 replies to this topic

[vxr36]

Been wanting this conversion since June last year. TMS were developing the kit at that time and as I didn't want to be a guinea pig I decided to let the development cycle finish before I bit the bullet. I chased TMS periodically but at the turn of 2007 I was told that all was OK and the mod had been done to 4 cars already. Cool, I thought and booked VXR36 in. The work I wanted was estimated and the time to complete was 8 days to 2 weeks. 6 weeks later I was invited to pick the car up. It had a cracked rear clam and some additional scratches. Also the interior was filthy. TMS agreed to address the issues. I drove 500 yards before a big bang! At first I thought it was the fan belt snapping but it turned out to be the heat shield which fell on to the fan belt. I left it there for another 1-2 weeks. I now know that a Stage 5 is still work in progress and after paying over a substancial amount of cash, I have not idea of when my car will be finished. Currently, I have an oil leak that is messing up my drive and garage, wires showing in the cockpit, the side sills are not stuck back down. My TC wire has been damaged and the car is virtually undrivable... In fact my wife will not drive it. I have stage 5 mechanics, a stage 4 map and the standard VXR turbo. Sure it goes like a rocket above 4500 revs, but up to that point it is so unpredictable. It is .3 of a second slower than my stage 2 when acelerating from 30 to 90 in third! If I turn left I grind the front wheel arch liner and if I go over a bump the rear driver's side wheel grinds the liner. I wish TMS had been honest about the development of the stage 5 and I wish they had taken more care when dealing with my baby. As it is I feel my car let down especially considering how much it has cost me to get this far.... A substancial amount. No doubt these issues will be resolved and I will look back and think that all my current bad feeling was a storm in a tea-cup. However, I am not convinced that this will be any time soon.

[marky boy]

Its not often that you hear bad things about TMS this concerns me as i have a service there on friday! I hope it all goes well for you mate!

[luna_s]

Dunno, but ive just been out in MikeFs car and its scarily fast as fook, internal organ rearranging fast as fook tbh

[Thorney]

Andrew, sorry you feel the need to post this up, especially seeing as we've been talking on the phone, however thats your choice. The last time we spoke (last Thursday?) you told me about the oil leak and I said to let me know if I should come an pick it up (which I offered) but I've not heard from you? Still happy to fix that of course. As regards the state of the interior when you picked the car up, I apologised and we rectified it, so I thought that was resolved? As regards the power, if you're thrashing it then I'm a bit surprised, we've fitted a complete new engine internals and you were only having it back to run it in! I put a stage 4 map on it just so it was a bit less dull for you but you only had the car back to run the engine in and in preparation for the remaining of the work (new turbo etc) which we discussed would be completed then. I guess I'm a little surprised, we discussed that the work was incomplete as the engine needed running in before the final turbo and downpipes were added and you had it back for that process, I'm happy to accept any criticism in any form but to have a go when we clearly said that the car wasn't finished yet seems a little unfair. However, the offer still stands that I pick the car up up and rectify the oil leak issue so let me know.

[vxr36]

I have tried to remain objective and fair in my comments. I don't want this to be a
I am just posting what my views are so far. You know that I am a supporter of TMS and I hope to post a fantastic piece after all the work is complete.... just as many others do. I am a vocal person but I still think I am fair and just 'cos we are talking omn the phone shouldn't mean that I should not post, does it? If I have been unprofessional then please say.

John, you said you would call me back about the oil leak after you had spoken with your technician. I have heard nothing.

I have not been thrashing the car but I have been driving it pretty hard. When I met with Dan I asked how long I should run the car in for and he said "no time at all, you can 'rag' it now if you like" Odd? If I have done any damage since picking up the car I shall be fcuking livid! Btw, Didn't you, yourself, tell me that you had it up to 140?

I know the project is work in progress that is why I mentioned I the words "...so far". I fully expect and hope to post again after the project is complete from a different point of view. I don't think I have been misleading anyone with my post. I pointed out that you agreed to fix the issues I found.

There is little point in picking the car up for an oil leak as you still have to have it back for the turbo fitting but I am concerned that we don't know when this will be... I was under the impression that the development was complete - but we know that it is not and as such can not possibly be the fifth car to have a stage 5.

[Thorney]

Andrew, I have no problem in you posting and said so, I do find it suprising when the job was clearly unfinished as IMO if it were me I'd post when it was done and not part finished at least to give a full report. Ref oil leak, I apologise, I was under the impression you were going to call me if it was an issue as you are right, you're due to come back anyway and it can be done then if there is confusion on that point then I apologise. Either way I am still happy to recover the car to sort any oil leaks. Ref running in, yes as part of the initial running in process we need to bed the pistons in which needs brief runs at a variety of speeds with the car coasting down, whilst Dans comments of 'ragging it' are wrong I'm not suggesting any damage has been done so don't worry there, however the idea of describing its performance as being unsatisfactory when its running a stage 4 map (designed for the VXR Astra turbo) on a standard turbo'd car (so it clearly isn't done right) purely so you have the car to get some miles on it I think is a bit unfair. However, I have no problem with you sharing your views in any way. MikeF's is the third car we've done, yours in the fourth, Mike has the VXR Astra turbo (temporarily until the new turbo is fitted) and he seems happy with the power, you decided to wait for the new turbo and leave the standard one on there, hence the difference in power delivery as a result you have an unfinished car. On my race car we have been running the new turbo and pipework for some time and they have not been without their issues, the level of changes required to take advantage of the new turbo have been extensive and are currently running into thousands of pounds of wasted development, something I obvilusly don't want a customer to pay for. The good news is that we're almost there and I'm happy with both the level of power and its delivery, seeing as the first race is on the 24th of March I can't really go any faster even if I tried. I pride TMS on its reputation, and in this occasion you are unhappy with the pace of the development and the final execution in the work, the points you make you've already made to me and I think we've already done a lot to rectify and compensate you for any trouble (including repairing some damage to your door from a car park incident free of charge) . THe loose wires in the cabin refer to the guages which does need work, the oil leak we agreed to leave until you came back (I thought) and the TC issues are new to me but of course I will rectify that. I'm a little surprised at the TC issue as I drove the car and even drove it to Race Logic to check the instalation as it was they who fitted it in the first place, regardless, of course I will sort it.

[MikeF]

My car's pretty damn scary at the moment until i've warmed the 888's up it will lose grip in 1st, 2nd and 3rd it pulls like nobodys business in all honesty and although the powerband is quite high (you mention 30-90 in 3rd, but why would you be in 3rd gear at 30 if you where going to thrash it?), this is due to the schrick cams, which you will find extremely useful on track because your never below 3500rpm. with regard to running in, there is a milllion different opinions and they are probably all right, but my basic underatanding is if you drive it like a for 1k miles then your going to end up with a 'lazy' engine, if you want a race engine that your going to need to rebuild every 20k/30k then you kick its head in from day one. alternatively you can kick its head in until around 100 miles (at none constant rpm) and then drive it nicely for the next 900 miles or so tbh I feel your being a little harsh on JT here, you know your cars ala in development and you know its not finsihed and yes i appreciate JT is a bit of a twat for never ringing you back, so just call him every 5 mins, it works pretty well to be honest, he soon comes to hate you i think if you have a problem with your car, call john, dont post it on a public forum unless you've reached a point where you feel it needs that Mike

[Guy182]

i wish there were some honest posts like this around before i chose to have my car stage 2'd at TMS, then i would have gone elsewhere and saved myself alot of money/mileage/general annoyance

Time for a story seeing as this is a forum for open speech... or is it? see if the post stays up.

Stage 2 remap @ TMS:

First attempt im booked in on a saturday before christmas, drive all the way down there 175 mile - nearly a tank of optimax, get there and its shut, sit around waiting for a while and its still shut, no answer to phone etc.
so drive all the way home, another 175 mile and another nearly full tank of optimax.
so 350mile - nearly 2 tanks of optimax, day waste

second attempt, go down there, sit round for ages before they start on my car, get the stage 2 done, knocked me 50 quid off the 550 remap price for the previous wasted journey (which covers fuel but not the fact id spent a full day driving across the country). comes out with 207bhp @ 5 psi. said i will have to speak to john about the issue who isnt in today so they cant do anything else 350mile - 2 tanks of optimax. day wasted

third attempt, drive down, sit around all day while they look at my car. Get told they will have to take the clam off to investigate further, get sent away in a banged up corsa worth about 150 quid. - 350mile a tank of optimax there

few days later its had an astra VXR turbo fited under vauxhall warranty. collect car, get given a graph for 254bhp set off on my way home, car doesnt feel much different apart from top end. i txt a couple of mates and they say it might just be in my head, if the graphs are right then thats all that matters. so i put it down to being in my head. - 350 mile, day wasted, tank of optimax and a full tank of fuel into the corsa

half way home i notice the black heatshield above the exhaust has been snapped off.. get told

They're always falling off mate, they're only tacked on, I doubt its been there for a while tbh.

yet i had cleaned the car for hours the day before i took it down there (people who saw it there that week can vouch for me)

It was parked outside opposite the workshop, looking very clean and tidy. Immaculate actually. Nice colour too.

no reply about it received.



after a few weeks the dissapointment finally got the better of me, went out and got 4 different pressure gauges, hooked them up to the car.. holding at approx 8/9psi. as suspected it wasnt running right.
needed proof of this so i found out the nearest dyno dynamics rolling road to give a fair comparison, went there and paid £50 just for this independent proof that my cars running crap. the boost peaked, dropped to 8/9psi then spiked up at the top of the rev range to 14psi where the air fuel ratio went all over the place. now the proofs there on paper (224bhp at standard 9psi).. get booked back in at TMS. have to wait a few weeks to be booked in, sort day (last wednesday), get a call the evening before. the straps for the rolling road have been broken so they cant use it for a while. told they would call me on friday as the straps should be in and get me booked back in

i ask for the boost graph figures that are supposedly from my car (on the 254bhp run) and im told they will be faxed over, give him my work number. get into work. no fax there for me. nice one.

funny how my car was not holding boost at all, then suddenly produced 254bhp with a new turbo, then by the time i picked it up it had dropped back down to standard 9psi boost pressure and running 224bhp ( higher figure than standard probably due to the milltek/vxr turbo combo)

no call so late this afternoon i PM'd JT im told the straps are still broke

ive also encounered being flat out twice and the power just disapearing and the car starting to decelerate.
theres also a funny noise on idle when its cold coming from the drivers side. sounds like exhaust blowing or something.

as this is getting on to 2 months since i originally paid for the stage 2 remap to be done on my car and i have yet to receive the service i have paid for, ive contacted the bank (luckily i paid on credit card) and logged a dispute which they will fight for me. thought i best take this action before it gets too late.


wish id just gone to Courtenay in the first place.. ok i wouldnt have got an astra vxr turbo under warranty at courtenay but it would have cost me less than the amount of miles ive done and days ive wasted at TMS and the countless phone calls chasing things up after being told '''i'll call you later on today to let you know whats happening''.

each time ive been at TMS ive also seen unhappy customers too so we're definately not alone.

Edited by Guy182, 27 February 2007 - 12:58 AM.

[Thorney]

What can I say? We got a booking date wrong with Guy so I knocked £50 off the map (according to our diary Guy was there on the wrong day, but I still offered the reduction). We discover the turbo was faulty (before we re-mapped the car) so we replace it offering a free courtesy car while we did it and no charge to Guy. We then map it, it gained 47bhp and it felt very different indeed (as you'd expect). Guy then mentions to me that it felt flat so I said we'd happily look into it, in the meantime Guy gets it tested elsewhere which shows something is wrong so I again say we'd look at it, of course FOC. Then last week we have two 993TT's in both running over 500bhp and we melt the straps on the exhausts causing them to snap. This meant I had to cancel all the bookings that week but I rang everyone to apologise (including Guy) to re-book. The replacement straps are due here tomorrow and we can then have a look at your car. I am sorry at the lack of returns of calls, I'm currently working 16 hour days just to keep up and sadly I'm failing, our office manager left to go on materntiy leave last week so I'm doing her job as well, please accpet my apologies for that. As regards the map, I'm keen to look at the car and identify what the problem is (and have said that all along) having all our dyno straps break in one go is a bit unheard of but not much I can do other than let you know and re-book you back in. Your assuming the map is at fault, however until I see the car I can only reserve judgement.

[Guy182]

What can I say? We got a booking date wrong with Guy so I knocked £50 off the map (according to our diary Guy was there on the wrong day, but I still offered the reduction).

now your just talking bullshit.. and one thing in life that REALLY annoys me is lying.

as soon as i got home that saturday i PM'ed you asking what was going on as i turned up and there was no one there.

you then told me a few days later that all your technicians were in on that saturday, you was in but popped out around dinnertime to sort some stuff. you said they were in the back doing a stocktake but the door was open all day. and had gone in especially to sort a few jobs and map my car
i was there from 10 - 1 and even kept ringing till nearly 2 as i was on my way home.

there were no cars there, doors locked up, but you still insisted that you were there.

now your saying that i turned up on the wrong day? which story do you want to stick with?



obviously no one can say its definately the map but the car had all hoses checked for leaks by you before the turbo was checked, turbo replaced, so its not that. could be actuator but that should have been replaced with the turbo so not that. boost controller solenoid will have been replaced with the turbo too. and the two engine tuners ive spoke to have both said it seems like a problem with the software you use.
i never believed the graph was true within 20 minutes of picking the car up and driving it, and it turns out it wasnt.

free courtesy car? if youd have told me i had to pay to travel back in that corsa i would have just took my VX home with the knackered turbo, got a refund from credit card company for the stage 2 you didnt do/took you to court/whatever it came to and gone somewhere else to have the car sorted.

We attach a Tech2 diagnostic computer to you cars OBD port and drive it on an extensive test route, during this time we log the cars ECU output and check for any irregularities or error codes from the ECU. Once we are happy that the car is performing as it should we re-map the cars ECU with enhanced engine management code via the on board diagnostic port.

this wasnt done at all
my car was taken for one drive up your road and back, put on the rollers. remapped for a while. THEN decided to connect the Tech 2 and take it for a drive. comes in with two graphs (before and after map), i assume everythings done, shows me the graphs and tells me ''my car hasnt quite taken the remap correctly'' and then i get sent away being told it could be a boost leak somewhere but i have to speak to john about it whos not in. i bring it back and sit all day while people investigate bits, then the rear clam is removed to check the intercooler and pipework, then when i ring up im told it was the turbo at fault and a new one is on order.

FACT.

why else would i have made so many journeys and sat there all day while you investigated it if you had known it was the turbo from the start?

plus the graphs are up on here from when you attempted to stage 2 it with the broken turbo so you can hardly lie your way out of that one!

Edited by Guy182, 27 February 2007 - 01:30 AM.

[vxr36]

I don't want this to be a slanging match and I rarely post rude or non constructive comments here. I am a professional person. However, IMO this is a 'public' forum and my posts are there to benefit the VX community as a whole. I don't hold any grudges and I fully expect (as I suspect TMS does too) to be writing a glowing report that you will all be drawling over in time to come. If I have a bad experience then why should I keep quiet about it, just 'cos it is TMS? I am not when I have a good experience. I believe I am fair. JT makes a good point in that I could have waited for the entire job to be complete and therefore offer one all encompassing report, but I have kept quiet for a long time and I honestly have no idea when the car will be complete... My last conversation was around reworking pipes and other technical stuff that I don't care to understand fully. So consider my comments above as part 1 of 2.

[Guy182]

I don't want this to be a slanging match and I rarely post rude or non constructive comments here. I am a professional person.

However, IMO this is a 'public' forum and my posts are there to benefit the VX community as a whole. I don't hold any grudges and I fully expect (as I suspect TMS does too) to be writing a glowing report that you will all be drawling over in time to come.

exactly.. i never mentioned anything on here about my TMS problems as i was certain they were going to rectify all the problems. but with no response about the heatshield they snapped off, the length of time to be rebooked in, the delays, its all just got too much and ive spoke some truth to the VX community which it needs. these types of stories are often sheltered. im not trying to do any of the thorney bashing.. just telling it how it is, and now being lied back to!

[vxr36]

Can't get the quotes to work. All quotes are from Mike.

[Quote]until i've warmed the 888's up it will lose grip in 1st, 2nd and 3rd[/quote]
Mine is nothing like that. I did try to make contact with you last week but have not managed it yet.

[Quote]it pulls like nobodys business in all honesty and although the powerband is quite high (you mention 30-90 in 3rd, but why would you be in 3rd gear at 30 if you where going to thrash it?), this is due to the schrick cams, which you will find extremely useful on track because your never below 3500rpm.[\quote]
I am not trying to thrash it... It is my every day car. I like the 30-90 test as it rules out issues with gear change. I have normal pull upto 3500 then very little until 4500 then it goes like a rocket. I know you have a slightly different turbo and that may make all the difference (I couldn't possibly comment otherwise) but my post wasn't supposed to be focused on driveability... it was the whole package.

[quote]with regard to running in, there is a milllion different opinions[/quote]
Clearly! In the same garage one says be careful and the other cane it.


[quote]tbh I feel your being a little harsh on JT here, you know your cars ala in development and you know its not finsihed[/quote]
Not at all. I know the car is not finished. But it is not in development. The stage 5 was in development last year. I only opted for the Stage 5 after I was told that all the development was all but complete ie 1st week of January this year.


[quote]i think if you have a problem with your car, call john, dont post it on a public forum unless you've reached a point where you feel it needs that [/quote]
Mike, what is a public forum for if you can not post your views about anything? JT himself was quick to suggest I 'name and shame' a garage some years ago (when I had withheld the name in my post).

I have not got emotionally involved with TMS in my posts nor pushed any personal views on anyone. I have just stated the facts and shared my experience so far to date..

Edited by vxr36, 27 February 2007 - 01:55 AM.

[Guy182]

like i said, your talking crap.

So, you've come for a remap, we've declined when we found something wrong, we then fix the thing that is wrong, then remapped it and shown good power, you've felt something is not right and wanted to bring it back which I've been keen to do. We have all our straps break (not known before) but once we have these we can get you in and have a look. As it now seems that there are other mechanical issues appearing the lack of straps is less of an issue but as I'm only seeing this now its only now I can offer advice?

not once did you decline to remap my car you wasnt even there! and the money was taken for the stage 2 remap there and then. invoice here as proof (and thats the payment the credit card company will be disputing) so youre openly telling me on 8th jan you declined to do a remap on my car? thanks! cos thats what i was billed for and sat around all day waiting for.

the technician never even checked the car before remapping it. he drove it up your street and back, he remapped the car and when it didnt work, he went over to the cupbioard on the left side of the workshop and got the tech 2 out, took it out with the tech2, came back said hes done the stage 2 remap but it hasnt taken it too well. and i was sent on my way and was told i had to speak to you about the problem the next day over the phone.it wasnt till the end of the day.

my car showed good power?? might have shown 254bhp for a few minutes while you had it on the rollers to print them graphs out. but its never felt like 254bhp, and i took it to soemwhere independent and the proof is there that it wasnt 254bhp.

------

We discover the turbo was faulty (before we re-mapped the car)

one thing i love about people lying.... catching them out

http://www.vx220.org...pic=42353&st=20

9th Jan (day after i had my car remapped to stage 2 and was sent on my way, and yet this is the same day that, you now say you declined to remap my car because it had a faulty turbo)

Yep, hence my PM. Does sound like the valve or potentially a split hose.

you going to stop digging yourself a deeper hole ?

Edited by Guy182, 27 February 2007 - 02:09 AM.

[Thorney]

Guy, you're right, it was your booking we said we could do on a Saturday and whilst I was there on stock check I did forget about your booking (hence didn't leave the door open) hence I did feel responsible for you being let down (hence the £50 reduction). In general we are not open Saturdays except for occasional car drop off/pick up, hence the confusion and hence I was sorry. According to the diary you were booked for Friday not Saturday. I'm sorry you don't like the courtesy car, if its any consolation we're getting a Corsa VXR to replace it. The boost controller isn't replaced with the turbo, thats a completely different unit on the other side of the engine, it may well be map related so of course I'm happy to repair it of course, all I'm saying is that I don't know and frankly nor can any other tuner without seeing it. I wasn't in when your car was first seen but I got a phonecall from one of the guys saying there was a problem, we went through the options it could be and they all needed investigation so it was decided to keep the car and sort it. With hindsight we know what it was but we didn't then did we? I'm keen to get the car back, investigate what is wrong, fix it and have you a happy customer. This was all planned for last Wed but straps breaking meant we had to postpone. As soon as the new straps come in we can get you back in, we can identify the problem, fix it and have you back as a happy customer. THe alternative is we remove what we've done, put you back to standard and refund you your money.

[Thorney]

I've now spoken to Guy, apologised for the lack of phonecalls and promised to get his car back in as soon as the straps arrive. With a bit of luck they will arrive tomorrow so Guy is booked back in on Wed to investigate/fix all the issues. We're currently a bit short staffed in the office at the moment, one member of staff has left (maternity) which has meant I'm now running all the admin (not my strong point) as well as everything else so being able to return calls is a bit of a problem, sorry about that. New member of staff starts next week I hope so after a bit of settling in we can get back to normal. As regards the forum, everyone will note I made no attempt to delete or hide anything on the thread (and never will), I pride myself on reputation and that means being open and honest is important. I (and TMS) will make mistakes from time to time, nothing we can do about it as no-one is perfect but its how we deal with those mistakes to rectify them and put the customer happy that is important. I hope that in the fullness of time both Guy and Andrew will be happy to confirm that.

[meo]

Edited to remove pointless comment

Edited by NickH, 27 February 2007 - 04:02 AM.

[orwell]

Had my first experience of TMS on 19.12.07.They did what I booked in for, plus a few extra fiddly jobs, (windows and heater), quickly and without fuss. Was very pleased with the difference in the car after their re-map. Can't comment about the issues raised earlier in this post, but for sure TMS are worlds away from my local dealer who could'nt even carry out a simple service properly and never even attempted to do two recall jobs, this despite having the car for over 7 hours! Mike

[Guy182]

Had my first experience of TMS on 19.12.07.They did what I booked in for, plus a few extra fiddly jobs, (windows and heater)

jesus you must be worth alot of money.....


a real life time traveller!

[chris]

my car showed good power?? might have shown 254bhp for a few minutes while you had it on the rollers to print them graphs out. but its never felt like 254bhp, and i took it to soemwhere independent and the proof is there that it wasnt 254bhp.

It is the miracle of Thorney 150 k£ dyno bench !!

As said before, You should invest in a Gtech Thorney !