18 replies to this topic

[Sutol]

Had the car for a month and i am having the recalls and reworks done cos they weren't done before Vxl have just called to say the cylinder head is cracked. They said they were putting everything back together and noticed water in the no4 spark plug hole. mopped up the water and it started to fill again. Thing is i'm suspicious! When i first got the car i asked vxl to do a full service and report on any nasties. No nasties were reported just that some recalls had not been done and the header tank had a crack and was leaking. Also found out from this site that the timing chain job hadn't been done (rework). So all this work was being done over the last few days. They have had the car from monday and didn't report this issue of a leak until now when alledgedly they were putting things back together. Now if they had got the timing wrong and metal started hitting metal on startup would that be enough to crack the head? Could cross threading or overtightening a plug cause it?? The car was losing say a cup of water to every 1000 miles however but that i believed to be from the cracked header tank. There was no apparent loss of performance, no misfiring Does anyone know of any problems with cracking heads? I just have a gut feeling that the garage have caused this problem but can i prove it? At worst i really don't know how much this going to cost but i suspect a lot. Its a shame i really love the car, still do, but this has left a nasty taste in my mouth.

[mandarinvx]

Bad luck mate Not sure you will be able to prove anything regarding where the blame lies - have they changed the spark plugs as part of the work they were doing. I remember reading a similar thread of the head cracking when the plugs were being changed It will cost an arm-an-a-leg through Vauxhall, if you can do some of the work yourself the cost should drop dramitically, not sure if you can repair a head in this area tho. There is a German company offering fully refurbed heads on ebay for £500 - is it an NA?

[Sutol]

yep its an n/a. The plugs were changed at the service a month ago and no problems were reported then. can you remember where you saw that thread about changing the plugs?

[mandarinvx]

This is the thread


Top tip:

to search the site thoroughly use googles advanced search option-
I typed in "head+spark site:www.vx220.org.uk" to get the above

[n1k_ns]

Ebay Clicky

[rabidh]

Given your water loss it could be the head. But, its worth suggesting this: The head might be fine, and the water is getting in through the grille in the boot when it rains and seeping down into the spark plug hole. Its what happened to mine. I just put some vasoline around the bottom of the coil pack (the black bit with the silver heat sink right on the top of the engine) and cleaned up where it pushes down and its all been fine. Water loss could have been the header tank, but could also be a leaky radiator/nearside front hose - both of which are known to fail on VXs. If its running ok now I reckon it would be an idea to keep it as-is and see what happens (unless they can actually point you to a crack in the head). If you really want to change the head the VX220 NA uses the same engine (Z22SE) as the Zafira, Vectra B and Astra (i think!). It would be worth logging onto www.z22se.co.uk and asking there, as members may well have some totally standard heads going cheap. hope that helps,

[Sutol]

Thanks mandarinvx So over tightening of the spark plugs is the likely cause. Now what i need to establish is were the plugs removed for the fitting of the new timing chain. if they were then the garage are responsible cos they put the plugs in a month ago. I better get a good nights sleep cos i'll need to be sharp tomorrow. rabidh the garage have found a crack, if only what you suggested were true! cheers for your help, Chris

[Guy009]

Thanks mandarinvx

So over tightening of the spark plugs is the likely cause. Now what i need to establish is were the plugs removed for the fitting of the new timing chain. if they were then the garage are responsible cos they put the plugs in a month ago. I better get a good nights sleep cos i'll need to be sharp tomorrow.

rabidh the garage have found a crack, if only what you suggested were true!

cheers for your help, Chris

Should have bought a backwards lotus, Sutol

although U R A BUS /Subaru is much more amusing


On a serious note, you have another option - some guys round here used to weld heads, Headway they were called, awesome work, one of the few places you could get 'porous head' fixed on the old XE motors. They've since gone bust, but, the skills and technology exist to fix your head - just need to find the right people. It was cheap too even compared to buying an ebay head (that might yet crack!?)

I wouldn't worry about running a repaired head, the repaired ones run perfectly (bear in mind most of these heads are being abused with obscene amounts of boost or running high compression+throttle bodies etc etc)

Edited by Guy009, 07 June 2007 - 12:26 AM.

[Sutol]

yeah well spotted Guy!!!! thought well its a lotus but not quite so i thought i'd be clever. btw my forum name on the lotus site (i have a Lotus Elan) is llahxauv re the head, my car has only done 4.5k miles and therefore i think a new head should go on a nearly new engine. I'm going to see the car so i will have a better idea where the crack is, but the garages comment was that to stitch the crack would be v.difficult.

[n1k_ns]

I fitted new sparkplugs at the weekend how tight are you supposed to do them? The old ones were a bitch to get out

[rabidh]

I think ebay will be your friend. I picked up a performance head and cams off there for £200 a year ago. I see normal heads come up for £100 occasionally - a lot cheaper than the £500 for the recon. ...but at 4.5k you should really be able to phone up vauxhall customer services and be angry. I've heard them pay for problems caused by a broken timing chain on an engine out of warranty, so for an engine with 4.5k on it you should stand a good chance.

[slindborg]

yeah well spotted Guy!!!! thought well its a lotus but not quite so i thought i'd be clever. btw my forum name on the lotus site (i have a Lotus Elan) is llahxauv

re the head, my car has only done 4.5k miles and therefore i think a new head should go on a nearly new engine. I'm going to see the car so i will have a better idea where the crack is, but the garages comment was that to stitch the crack would be v.difficult.

lol the vx is more lotus than the elise is they kindly designed the z22se lol

[Crimson Avenger]

re the head, my car has only done 4.5k miles and therefore i think a new head should go on a nearly new engine. I'm going to see the car so i will have a better idea where the crack is, but the garages comment was that to stitch the crack would be v.difficult.

This is quite true. Repair of a crack in a high stress area is even more difficult. Worse, it's an custom formula aluminum alloy, so welding will be nigh impossible.

Repairs to non stress bearing cracks in for example cast iron exhaust ports is a crap shoot at best. It involves finding and drilling a hole BEYOND the end of the crack, then milling out the material on the sides of the crack so that you have a clean surface on which to weld, and finally fill welding the milled grove. Typically, these repairs last for a little while, then re-crack in the same area.

By far your best bet is to get a new or re-machined head. The cost of the head is only part of the repair. It will be the actual disassembly and re-assembly that will cost the greatest amount, and that cost is the same whether or not you try a jury rigged welded repair, or a new head with pre-fitted (ground & lapped) valves.

Obviously, the cost consideration is real, but for my money, I would not try having someone weld it and machine it back to fit. The greatest likely hood is that it will re-crack at the edges of the repair, and you'll be out another remove-reinstall cycle's wort of money, and end up buying a new head anyway.

Sorry this happened, but it's not the end of the world--just a bump in the road.

[Sutol]

Thanks for your comments guys. I have in fact had a bit of a result in that the garage have accepted that over cranking the plug at service was the likely cause of the crack and have taken it on the chin to their credit. They will be fitting a vxl recon head FOC. Without you guys pointing me in the right direction i could have been facing a bill of £3k!!! I showed this thread to the garage and it helped a grat deal in proving my point. It just shows how valuable these sites are, thanks again I would have preferred a new head but on talking to a few people in the trade they have said that it will effectively be as good. So hopefully when i get back from Le Mans the car will be ready to drive away with all the work done. My only niggle is that i have a limited mileage on insurance of 3000 and i will have to use a significant amount of that running the new head in. Simple answer to that is to get the mileage topped up but no doubt i'll get f'ed up the ar$e by the insurance company. Cheers Chris

[slindborg]

erm the head wont really need running in. the only parts of a new engine that require GENUINE running in are the piston rings (and most of their running in is done in the first 50 miles of use) id prehaps take it easy for 100 miles, check to leaks then drive as normal.

[AntonG]

I'm deeply suspicious of you vauxhall stealer! A cracked cylinder head dependant on the location of the crack will have a number of different effects. Water way - over pressurising the coolant systems. This will lead to over heading burst hoses, radiators and the like. it'd be running v badly either way. Oil way - pressure into the oil/sump. Basically lots of oilly smoke as the oil is blown out of the sump into the inlet side of the engine, you would also probably need to collect your dipstick from the orbit of the earth it would probably be doing. Between valve and spark plug - Again it'd run pretty badly and some serious defect of gorilla would be needed to cause this. Between valves - Inlet you'd bet pressure back into the inlet manifold, very poor running fueling would be all to pot and generally an unhappy vx - you'd also get a chuffing noise as the pressure was forced out of the cylinder. Exhaust - less of an effect that inlet but you'd still be dropping pressure on that cylinder, it'd feel like a misfire and i really think you'd notice the drop in power on the N/A. Put bluntly have they described where the crack is - if its a faliure on a water way the plug would be looking knackered already and it'd probably miss like a bastard in the morning on start up. I think they're pulling your plonker! QUiz the bastards as they've probably dropped a bollock somewhere and are trying to get you to foot the bill for unnecessary work.

[Sutol]

I'm deeply suspicious of you vauxhall stealer!

A cracked cylinder head dependant on the location of the crack will have a number of different effects.

Water way - over pressurising the coolant systems. This will lead to over heading burst hoses, radiators and the like. it'd be running v badly either way.

Oil way - pressure into the oil/sump. Basically lots of oilly smoke as the oil is blown out of the sump into the inlet side of the engine, you would also probably need to collect your dipstick from the orbit of the earth it would probably be doing.

Between valve and spark plug - Again it'd run pretty badly and some serious defect of gorilla would be needed to cause this.

Between valves - Inlet you'd bet pressure back into the inlet manifold, very poor running fueling would be all to pot and generally an unhappy vx - you'd also get a chuffing noise as the pressure was forced out of the cylinder.

Exhaust - less of an effect that inlet but you'd still be dropping pressure on that cylinder, it'd feel like a misfire and i really think you'd notice the drop in power on the N/A.

Put bluntly have they described where the crack is - if its a faliure on a water way the plug would be looking knackered already and it'd probably miss like a bastard in the morning on start up. I think they're pulling your plonker! QUiz the bastards as they've probably dropped a bollock somewhere and are trying to get you to foot the bill for unnecessary work.

not sure where you're coming from, i have explained where the crack is my previous postings and the garage have agreed to replace the head free of charge. the garage told me that they actually ran the car up after fitting the timing chain and that is when they noticed a leak and traced it to no4 plug hole. They said the engine was suffering no ill effects and purring away quite happily.

[AntonG]

I'm deeply suspicious of you vauxhall stealer!

A cracked cylinder head dependant on the location of the crack will have a number of different effects.

Water way - over pressurising the coolant systems. This will lead to over heading burst hoses, radiators and the like. it'd be running v badly either way.

Oil way - pressure into the oil/sump. Basically lots of oilly smoke as the oil is blown out of the sump into the inlet side of the engine, you would also probably need to collect your dipstick from the orbit of the earth it would probably be doing.

Between valve and spark plug - Again it'd run pretty badly and some serious defect of gorilla would be needed to cause this.

Between valves - Inlet you'd bet pressure back into the inlet manifold, very poor running fueling would be all to pot and generally an unhappy vx - you'd also get a chuffing noise as the pressure was forced out of the cylinder.

Exhaust - less of an effect that inlet but you'd still be dropping pressure on that cylinder, it'd feel like a misfire and i really think you'd notice the drop in power on the N/A.

Put bluntly have they described where the crack is - if its a faliure on a water way the plug would be looking knackered already and it'd probably miss like a bastard in the morning on start up. I think they're pulling your plonker! QUiz the bastards as they've probably dropped a bollock somewhere and are trying to get you to foot the bill for unnecessary work.

not sure where you're coming from, i have explained where the crack is my previous postings and the garage have agreed to replace the head free of charge. the garage told me that they actually ran the car up after fitting the timing chain and that is when they noticed a leak and traced it to no4 plug hole. They said the engine was suffering no ill effects and purring away quite happily.

sorry too much speed reading between bosses! so used to dealers trying this sort of thing i just made the assumption they were trying to shaft you! i'll get my coat!

[Crimson Avenger]

erm the head wont really need running in. the only parts of a new engine that require GENUINE running in are the piston rings (and most of their running in is done in the first 50 miles of use)

id prehaps take it easy for 100 miles, check to leaks then drive as normal.

Precisely correct. (I especially agree with the comment about the first 50 miles for the rings... see MotoMan's Break-In Secrets)

Regarding run-in on the head, you really don't even need to take it easy for that first 100 miles, but slidborg is spot on with the check for leaks at 100 miles. The reason for no run-in is that the valves are lapped into the seats and come right of the gate working as well as they will ever work. There's an issue of minor rough spots on cam lobes and followers, but there's no special RPM needed (except that idle is probably not the best--you need to get the oil flowing well up in the top of the valve train, and that happens at any RPM over about 1500.) While you're driving the first few miles, just be sure to vary the RPM range a bit: you don't want to immediately park the revs at 1800 on cruise control for the first 50 miles, but generally there's nothing to worry about.

I am so glad to hear about the dealer accepting responsibility. Indeed, the fellows on this forum were quite helpful in that regard with their links to past threads, and that's why we respect the senior members of such forums--wisdom through experience and longevity...

Edited by Crimson Avenger, 09 June 2007 - 01:44 AM.