19 replies to this topic

[hughcam]

Is there any major difference between the B207E and the B207r engine or do they both provide the same benefits over the z22se? (better head, under piston squirters ect?) There seems to be a few B207E engines on ebay that would (could?) form a cheap starting point for a rebuild.

[Nev]

They are so temping arent they. I've been considering buying one myself and stripping it and rebuilding it in the hope that someone would buy it off me at the end. Apparently you can take a B204 (the old iron block engine) and take straight up to 450 BHP with a turbo swap !! Take a look at some of the various Saab websites, some of them descibe the differences and which bits are weakest on the car and what sort of power hike they can take before they expire.

[davemate]

How about the B204 or the B234 engine? These are more highly regarded in saab circles from when i had a read around.

[Rosssco]

From 'stuff' I've read on a couple of Saab forums, all B207 engines are essentially the same, but the B207R has slightly more aggressive cams and a ECU map to suit, hence 210bhp vs. 175bhp. I think the standard cams are not very good for SC'ing, so you'll have to change them anyway, and we don't use the ECU, so.. Some are listed as 1.8T, although they are all 2.0L capacity, just model differentiation so you'd buy the more expensive one..

Edited by Rosssco, 23 October 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[siztenboots]

The B204 and B205 are the 2L turbo with Balancer shafts , the B206 is 2L NA and no balancer shafts. Then there is the B234 and B235 , which are the 2.3L turbo variants. The B234(2.3l) and B204(2.0l) blocks are physically IDENTICAL , every dimension, every screw hole, every mounting bracket, the two blocks are identical. The difference is in the internals, the B234 gains its extra .3l of displacement via a longer stroke than the B204 motors. B234R is the Aero motor, however its physically the same as any other B234

[Graeme Lambert]

If you want to look at and ask advice, then I can recommend www.uksaabs.co.uk JJJ even has a project thread on there (not that he's ever updated it or replied to my posts... ) G

[siztenboots]

666bhp proven from standard block, rods , pistons, valves http://www.serioussa...2x4tribute.html

[davemate]

They really are good engines aren't they?! I have never owned a saab but reading around they are now growing on me... I must resist not building a sleeper :S

[Exmantaa]

From 'stuff' I've read on a couple of Saab forums, all B207 engines are essentially the same, but the B207R has slightly more aggressive cams and a ECU map to suit, hence 210bhp vs. 175bhp. I think the standard cams are not very good for SC'ing, so you'll have to change them anyway, and we don't use the ECU, so..

Some are listed as 1.8T, although they are all 2.0L capacity, just model differentiation so you'd buy the more expensive one..

Correct, difference in B207E/L (or Z20NET) and B207R are the cams, the turbo size and the programming.

To work with an SC you should swap the cams for proper SC cams like the std LSJ items or some upgraded cams. The B207R cams are very close to the LSJ profile and timing (litttle less lift), so if you have these you can keep them in for SC use.

[vocky]

Is there any major difference between the B207E and the B207r engine or do they both provide the same benefits over the z22se? (better head, under piston squirters ect?) There seems to be a few B207E engines on ebay that would (could?) form a cheap starting point for a rebuild.

The B207 engines can be considered all the same for vx220 conversion purposes, the cams are shite so not any use on the vx220.

You will have to convert it to a 2.2 to use the z22se ecu - 2.2 crank/ 2.2 rods/ 2.2 pistons. Also there are a few mods which require doing - blank off exhaust cam auxillary drive (z22se cams are shorter, but you could fit the longer lsj cams), the turbo oil feed needs blanking off - just fit a blanking plug (standard GM part), the saab oil cooler needs plumbing in and the vx220 oil cooler removing and the turbo oil return need blocking off - you need to machine a plug for that.

[hughcam]

So basically the bottom end has indentical strength (weakness) as a standard z22se? Am I correct in thinking the biggest advantage is the head which can be ported/flowed more than the z22se?

[hughcam]

If you want to look at and ask advice, then I can recommend www.uksaabs.co.uk

JJJ even has a project thread on there (not that he's ever updated it or replied to my posts... )

G

Cheers, I will have a look at this!

[Rosssco]

So basically the bottom end has indentical strength (weakness) as a standard z22se? Am I correct in thinking the biggest advantage is the head which can be ported/flowed more than the z22se?

No, the bottom end has a number of differences outwith capacity.

[NickB787]

Under piston oil jets I think as well on the Saab unit

[NickB787]

http://www.saabscene...oversize valves

[Nev]

Chip's oversized valves are the same as Nippers.

[NickB787]

Just trying to find on your blog information on your valves I see you are 1mm oversize wasted stem, where did you get them from UK? G&S? were they a special order ?

Edited by NickB777, 23 October 2012 - 03:24 PM.

[Exmantaa]

So basically the bottom end has indentical strength (weakness) as a standard z22se? Am I correct in thinking the biggest advantage is the head which can be ported/flowed more than the z22se?

No, the bottom end has a number of differences outwith capacity.

Forged crank, stronger conrods, better pistons and the oil squirters. And besides the better head casting the exh valves.should be also sodium filled/cooled.

[Nev]

Just trying to find on your blog information on your valves I see you are 1mm oversize wasted stem, where did you get them from UK? G&S? were they a special order ?

Yep G&S, special order, though he made several sets, if you are lucky he might have some in stock. Otherwise expect a loooong wait !

I think mine had wider stems so that I could fit the Audi bronze guides. You better double check as I forget the details now.

Chip bought the last set of valves that G&S ever intended to make. I had to push like hell to get them to make more, the guy who owns G&S is rather poorly and a millionaire, so its hard to get him to do anything. Poor Chip's engine blew up on a test run shortly after taking the power upto around 550 BHP. He has since bought 2 more Saab engines to act as doners but has not finished the Nova off as he is working on his Clio's now (he has 3!!). In fact, he owns 11 highly modified cars and maps them all himself - a very capable guy and I am glad to have him as a friend/mentor.

Edited by Nev, 23 October 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[NickB787]

Chip sounds like some guy Might be worth a call to see if they have any left