42 replies to this topic

[mqm]

As some of you will know my car failed its MOT last week due to corroded brake pipes and a leaky front shock.

 

The shock was easy to sort but the brake pipe is the one going through the sill on the passenger side.  In searchng the forums the only real guidance I can find is that it is a pig of a job to do.  TIS is no help either.

 

Has anyone  done this and produced a guide on how to do it? 

 

I prefer to do the work myself as I had all sorts of issues with the car when it was under warranty and Vaux 'maintained' it.  Since then I have replaced a few things such as the cam sensor (engine would just cut out and would not start until the AA man came!), cleaned the connector of doom and retightend the fasteners (erratic running). replaced the odd drive shaft (easier to do than replace gator on the CV), GAZ shocks, cambelt changes (4 of those at moment), alternator, battery, secret switch (£5 from Maplin compared to £54 from Vaux!), coil and the usual oil and air filters etc.  But despite the high mileage 156K I am still running on the same clutch, I've never had the cam cover (but will need to replace the a lealking gasket (fully synthetic oil?)) it still got its original brake fluid and I can't recall having ever bled teh system for that matter.

 

It has had new front and rear clams, new exhaust and new headlights following various people not seeing me and runing into me, but that work was done by others and someone elses cost.

 

Doing the brake pipes sounds a difficult job and can't get the car into the garage so all work is undertaken on the drive no matter what the weather.  I am therefore tempted to hand it over to someone else if I can't find a guide but I am reluctant to do it as garages, even the ones who the know the car make a hash of things and in carrying out the MOT the car was jacked up wrong and damaged!

 

Anybody out there offering advice?

 

Mark

 

[fezzasus]

It shouldn't be that hard, just access is difficult. I assume you mean items 20 and 21 here: http://www.deroure.c...&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0

 

 

If so, you a standard brake line wrench is needed, change them then re-bleed.

[Gedi]

Sounds more like 19 to me?

[LY_Scott]

It shouldn't be that hard, just access is difficult.

That's the whole point. Access is impossible.

[fezzasus]

Sounds more like 19 to me?

Might be, but the only corroded lines i've heard of are from the bits in the rear arches.

[fezzasus]

 

It shouldn't be that hard, just access is difficult.

That's the whole point. Access is impossible.

True, but that doesn't make it an easy job for a garage to do. As much as these jobs are difficult to do, it's certainly going to be cheaper than sending it to someone else. If it really is the one running the length of the sill rather than the one at the rear, it's going to get very expensive. 

[slindborg]

 

Sounds more like 19 to me?

Might be, but the only corroded lines i've heard of are from the bits in the rear arches.

 

Given he thinks its never had new fluid I'd say the entire braking system could be shafted from the inside....

[Tony H]

Does the whole pipe have to be replaced? Is it not possible to cut off the ends and join a piece of generic pipe? Or is it the bit inside the sill that corrodes too?

[techieboy]

Can't believe it's the section that runs through the sill. No way would an MOT pick up on that as it's hidden. I'd guess it's just the screw on section that runs along the subframe to the flexi line. If so, just buy the replacement from Vauxhall and swap them. Not a hard job, especially if you buy the pre-formed section from Vauxhall (instead of trying to bend a straight line to suit) and sounds like you're well overdue a fluid change!!

So part 9 and/or 10 (or part 5 and/or 6 if it's between the ABS actuator and the bulkhead).

[Nev]

If the section of pipework in the sill is fine, is it possible to leave that in situ and connect new pipework to it (having cut off the old rusty stuff) ?

[techieboy]

Each rear line is in 3 pieces. A front compartment section, a sill section and an engine bay section with bulkhead fittings between them. So no need to cut anything, just replace the section that needs replacing. If it really is the section inside the sill, then you're fcuked. Looking at the shape of it on the EPC diagram above, there's no way to replace that without cutting the sill off to access/route it.

 

[FLD]

You can replace it.   You need to pull the old one throughand cut it off in sections.  I'd suggest breaking it off through the access hole in the sill where it kicks up to go itno the front.  Attatch (bolt together) a new piece of copper pipe and use the old one to pull through the new copper one breaking off bits of the old one as you go.  Pull through more copper and bend as appropriate.  It will be a complete slag of a job but its not too terrible surely?

[techieboy]

I can't see how you can join the new line to the old and have any hope of pulling it through the hose clips that secure it inside the sill.

[FLD]

I can't see how you can join the new line to the old and have any hope of pulling it through the hose clips that secure it inside the sill.

It was just an idea.   Looks like webcam and arm down the sill time then. 

 

There is a pikey method.  You could cut off the ends of the old one and just leave it in place.  Thread down a copper pipe and hold it in place with some cable tie anchors.  Its a bit too pikey for my liking though.

[mqm]

It is the bit that runs within the sill. Only the bit that sticks out from the sill into the rear wheel arch was spotted as being corroded along with the union that joins part 10 and 8 on the attached diagram.

 

I assume the rest is find as it is protected within the sill but I understand that sometimes water can get trapped between the colland pipe and brake pipe within the sill and that causes problems.

 

Ideally the whole of part 8 needs to be replaced but doing it will be a pig, but apparently not impossible job.  I might be able to just replace the union and the exposed part of 8 but even here it is very tight for access.  Spyderworks near Peterborough who specialise in Lotus cars say that is probably the best way to tackle it first.

 

If I do get it replaced I will have to do a guide myself as I think it wodl be useful for everyone out there who has a VX as they are getting on a bit even though most do not get as well used as mine and corroded pipes will become more of a problem.

 

And in respect of comments about the system being f**ked from the inside because it has not had any fluid change:  my philosophy is  if it ain't broke don't fix it.  I have never had any problems with the brakes until now whihc is not too bad for a weekend car in which I have driven for over a 150,000 miles!  Things wear out, discs, pads etc., but with only a little care these cars can do high mileages.

 

Mark

 

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[vocky]

 

I understand that sometimes water can get trapped between the colland pipe and brake pipe within the sill and that causes problems.

 

 

I have hopefully saved a few owners from this problem by removing the cable tie which held the brake pipe against the coolant pipe (with a piece of foam sandwiched in between the two pipes), classic water trap and potential rust spot

 

Thankfully mine has zero rust at that point, probably something to do with it not seeing rain for seven years

[fezzasus]

 

And in respect of comments about the system being f**ked from the inside because it has not had any fluid change:  my philosophy is  if it ain't broke don't fix it.  I have never had any problems with the brakes until now whihc is not too bad for a weekend car in which I have driven for over a 150,000 miles!  Things wear out, discs, pads etc., but with only a little care these cars can do high mileages.

 

 

fcuk me. That's a awful position to take. You realise brake fluid is consumable and does degrade? That's why it's meant to be changed every 2 years, check your service manual.

[JG]

and it degrades because its hidroscopic, i.e it takes on water. 

[mqm]

Point taken.  Should have flushed the system by now but the brakes still seem sharp to me and certainly for the last 5 years I have had no reason to even bleed them.  That's probably because the brake fluid reservoir has never been opened!

 

As I am going to replace the pipe it will be a good time to flush out the system.  My worry is that all the bloody seals will go when I put fresh fluid in!  The cam cover seal certainly does not like pure synthetic oil in the engine.

 

So has anyone replaced this pipe before and just how did they go about doing it?  

 

Mark

 

 

[fezzasus]

Point taken.  Should have flushed the system by now but the brakes still seem sharp to me and certainly for the last 5 years I have had no reason to even bleed them.  That's probably because the brake fluid reservoir has never been opened!

 

As I am going to replace the pipe it will be a good time to flush out the system.  My worry is that all the bloody seals will go when I put fresh fluid in!  The cam cover seal certainly does not like pure synthetic oil in the engine.

 

So has anyone replaced this pipe before and just how did they go about doing it?  

 

Mark

 

 

You won't notice the brakes degrade because it will happen gradually. I can guarantee if you had the chance to jump back in your car from 5 years ago they would feel much better. The cap doesn't need to have been opened to take on water. 

 

As for the synthetic oil comment. higher quality oil is actually less aggressive to seals. My company has 50 years of historical data to the present day showing that.

 

As for the pipe, you can get a USB inspection camera to check the length of the pipe. I suspect the rear has corroded due to water sprayed from the rear wheel, so the centre bit might be okay - these cameras are £25 on ebay so well worth a check. If it is just the end then chop it off and make a new piece to run to the rear calipers.