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Stage 2 Vs Stage 4 Turbo


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#1 dw1

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:56 PM

With the National having such a variety of tuned cars there might be some owners thinking of going to Stage 4 with the turbo. For me it's now been six months since making the move from Stage 2. Within that time I've driven about 4,000 miles of mixed roads including 3 track days. 

Performance
I guess the main reason why people go for it is the performance. So how does it compare? On the road, there is a marked difference in acceleration and power. Like another owner described, on a B road the ability to make a quick overtake is almost bike like and you can make safe overtakes in places you just couldn't before.

The sense of thrust is a fun sensation and call me a kid but seeing cars shrink in the rear view mirror can be fun from time to time. It taps into a primal sense; the thrill of acceleration.

I would say it is no faster A to B on the road, in fact the way the power is delivered means you need to be more careful whereas a standard tubby you can probably be earlier on the throttle and more confident.

I think a stage 2 is more satisfying on the road.  Stage 2 has a lovely balance of power that you can exploit and for that reason it's more fun to wring the neck out. By contrast the stage 4 has too much power to wring its neck out so you have to be much more measured on how you apply the throttle. 

On a recent back road drive in Europe this became more apparent. The car was great for zipping past people which helped country road progress but ultimately not as much fun through the twisties. Half way through I realised there was something missing in terms of the full satisfaction I was getting compared to that same drive a year ago and I found myself feeling not quite as satisfied as before. For me it's a subtle difference as the drive was still fun but it was noticeable. You simply can't exploit it's full power on the twisties without being dangerous. As a result the drive was not as satisfying.

So it has it's pluses and minuses.

What about on the track?
It depends on what track it is, if it's a twistie one then there won't be much difference. Faster tracks and there will be. It's nice to be able to have the power to dispatch those annoying cars that have high bhp, rubbish round bends and poor drivers who have an ego problem about letting people past.

Here is an on track comparison. At Brands the stage 4 car was just quicker by a second, both times were on the same Khumos. 

The Spa comparison is not strictly fair as the Stage 4 was also on 888s but you still get the idea of the difference. It's the steepness of the rising traces to look at. The downslopes should be very similar whatever state of tune. You can see the steeper acceleration trace leading to much higher top speeds much more quickly.
Posted Image
You can see the time difference that extra power makes in terms of time gained. (part of that gain is due to more familiarity of the track). If you took out that factor and the different tyres then it is probably somewhere around 5 seconds quicker as a result of the extra power.

Does a stage 4 make track work any more fun than a stage 2? For me, not really, I'd say the same amount of immense fun with stage 4 having the added advantage of not getting snagged up with  fast 'straight line' cars. You can also let rip with the power in a way you never can on the road, so it's satisfying. So it just wins in terms of track use, but with the danger that it makes you a lazy track driver as it hides errors of not carrying enough corner speed, that in a slower car would be obvious by the time you got on the straights.

Overall my advice is don't rush into stage 4, it's not the holy grail. Really learn and enjoy your car, you might find that it's current state of tune is just right. If you are going to go down the modification path resist stage 4 as the starting point. Go to stage 2, do the suspension, uprate the pads, the discs. And really wring it's neck out whilst having a manic grin on your face.

#2 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:05 PM

A nice honest review of a stage 4 and stage 2 (obviously I can only relate to on the road) I'm actually thinking about going for a lower torque map :)

Edited by Bumblebee, 31 July 2013 - 07:07 PM.


#3 frosty

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:07 PM

Can't beat the grunt out the corners with a stage 4

#4 Rickwoo118

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:09 PM

A good review of stage 2 and stage 4. As I have had both as well I totally agree with this. Nice write up.

#5 Ivor

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

had a stage 1.5 and now a stage 4, would not go back; it's faster A to B because of the ability to overtake almost where ever you like.



#6 Rickwoo118

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

had a stage 1.5 and now a stage 4, would not go back; it's faster A to B because of the ability to overtake almost where ever you like.

There is that yes. I would not go back but would like to drive a standard VX to see the difference as I am use to the stage4 now.

#7 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:57 PM

I went in a standard vx a couple of weeks ago and drive one a few months back,it certainly feels different!

#8 Cookies220

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:59 PM

I've had stg2 for a number of years and made the jump to stg4 a couple of weeks ago.  Of course there is much more power and the rate you get up to naughty speeds is really something. Having said that, if you have a stg2 and you're ringing it's neck on the roads then it doesn't take long to get to licence losing speeds anyway.

 

I actually had more torque at low end with my stg2 than with my stg4 (maybe the difference between cms and mmg). For me personally, I'm happy I made the move, but totally agree that it makes sense to start with stg2 as stg 4 may not be for everyone. I'm also surprised that my stg4 is actually more economical than my stg2!



#9 Duncan VXR

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

Stg 4 on standalone and best of both worlds, for me it's always been the part throttle response and delivery that slows the A-B road comparison of stg4 v stg2 then you just need to use the amount of power to situation without any surprises :-) Fully agree with your view and great to see some data also ;-) some very true points stated Can't beat the rush of 300+ bhp vx220 B-) DG

#10 Gedi

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:53 PM

Maybe a stage 3 is a better compromise?

 

I'm more interested in a smooth torque curve than big torque.

I'd rather have 300bhp and 300lb/ft with an NA like torque curve than 300bhp and 350lb/ft and a huge turbo spike



#11 jameso

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:56 PM

You won't get a curve like an NA without a standalone

#12 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:02 PM

You won't get a curve like an NA without out a different turbo

;)

#13 jameso

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

Well yes.... Without a turbo is prolly more accurate :P but it can be very smooth and controlled as DG has proved with standalone

#14 Gedi

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:05 PM

You won't get a curve like an NA without a standalone

 

You can get something similar if you go to a good tuner and sacrifice some torque



#15 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:06 PM

I'm actually thinking of going for a lower torque map

#16 jameso

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:07 PM

The standalone ECU doesn't have enough control to give you a smooth curve. If you look at DGs comparisons of Dave H's (Simbas) before and after the standalone it's pretty clear. Only way tuners can give you a smooth curve with the standard ECU is by artificially smoothing the curve ;)

#17 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:08 PM

I also think the little turbo has a lot to do with it as its no doubt running at full capacity. All IMO of course :)

#18 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:09 PM

Only way tuners can give you a smooth curve with the standard ECU is by artificially smoothing the curve ;)

I agree

Edited by Bumblebee, 31 July 2013 - 10:14 PM.


#19 jameso

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:14 PM

Thanks aimes :) Where's scuffers? We need someone to disagree!! ;p

Edited by jameso, 31 July 2013 - 10:15 PM.


#20 Bumblebee

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:17 PM

Would be interesting to see another 300hp car (running a different turbo) dyno graph.....

Edited by Bumblebee, 31 July 2013 - 10:18 PM.





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