94 replies to this topic

[Jim_Cross]

I have received another letter from Vauxhall regarding the ABS issue, however I'm not at home to read it! I got someone to open it for me - apparentlz it's verz lengthy and technical (i.e. I think they've given stopping distances for various scenarios, including low friction to high friction surface changes. It sounds like they have taken it very seriously, and put a lot of time into it (assuming these are new tests, not the original tests on pre release), which is a credit to Vauxhall. I think they also tested it alongside an Elise. Now the downside. While I haven't seen the contents of the letter, from what I've been told the conclusion states that they have found no safetz issue with the ABS system on the VX220/Speedster. When I get back home at the weekend I'll post up the whole contents if it isn't too long, or at least some of the technical data and the conclusions. Then we can decide whether we think they're right and we close the matter, or whether we feel their tests are missing something vital and we try to pursue it further. Please excuse the typos. German keyboard

Edited by Jim_Cross, 10 August 2004 - 01:36 PM.

[andym172]

Thanks for your ongoing work with this Jim This is just my personal view, but I don't really care whether or not Vauxhall found their VX to perform adequately in their tests. Fact is, many owners are experiencing difficulties with it in day-to-day driving. Thankfully mine's been ok for the past few weeks, but then at Brunters on Sunday I had a major brown trou moment when it engaged at 100mph+ while braking on the main straight.

[jules_s]

Perhaps we should arrange for the relevant person to drive in mine for a bit see if he/she still thinks there isnt an issue after ive straight lined a few roundabouts under the influence of shite ABS edit: yeah, your efforts are much appreciated JC

Edited by benny_H, 10 August 2004 - 02:09 PM.

[Jim_Cross]

If we're not happy with the results, then I think we would have to take a proactive approach, e.g. we set up a series of tests under conditions which we believe highlights the problem. Quite how we could do this, without hiring somewhere like Millbrook I don't know. Perhaps we would need to get a magazine involved (any good magazine has regular access to places like Bedford or Millbrook)

[turboman]

If we're not happy with the results, then I think we would have to take a proactive approach, e.g. we set up a series of tests under conditions which we believe highlights the problem.
Quite how we could do this, without hiring somewhere like Millbrook I don't know. Perhaps we would need to get a magazine involved (any good magazine has regular access to places like Bedford or Millbrook)

Now your just after an excuse to thrash around in fast cars all day, arnt you, go-on, admit it, we know you too well.

[mart356]

Lets find a blind narrow corner road, cover it with a little gravel, chew up the road a bit to create vibratrion and park a tractor 20 metres around the corner and invite Vauxhaul execs to drive around the bend in their VXs as a test. * even better idea, get their children/ lovely wife/ mistress/ beloved grand mama to drive the cars.

Edited by mart356, 10 August 2004 - 02:16 PM.

[Foxy]

I've been told the conclusion states that they have found no safetz issue with the ABS system on the VX220/Speedster.

Why isn't that a surprise


Keep it up mate

[Whiteboy]

I hope all your efforts are worth it, so like we are being fobed off to the lot of them

[paulr]

Have vauxhall missed the point that when the abs activates it stays on until the car eventually stops or you take you foot off the brake and re-apply. Other than probably needing the brake fluid changed the car usually stops very nicely but It's when the abs goes off!

[Ricky2772]

tbo, that is the classic reply I expected from Vauxhall....pretty obvious too, in any complaint's case, corporations's first move is ALWAYS to reject the problem, hoping to settle it down for good out of naivetè or exaustion of the other party.

let's stand up and fight!!!

let's get the press involved!!!

[cheeky_chops]

let's get the press involved!!! 

Dissagree. the press will want more than "we think its an issue"

If we still believe it a genuine problem, we, as an owners club, should approach an independant organisation and ask them to run tests against how a benchmark car performs. There is a cost and we will have to cover that initially.

With these results(assuming conclusive), we can then approach Vauxhall again. Press is a last resort

Actually, i am sure we can run our own basic test initally! All we need it some tarmac, a GPS to measure speed, some gravel, a tape measure, a VX, a VXT, a VXR and some other cars!

Edited by cheeky_chops, 11 August 2004 - 09:41 AM.

[pcmanning]

Look forward to reading the letter in full!

Meanwhile, following an mention in another thread, I used Google to search on

abs 'ice-mode'

And variants. And lo - we're not the only people who've seen it - it's NOT car specific! Take a look but mentions go to a 350z, a Suzuki (Jimny - ugh!), scoobi's and some Jeeps. Basically if a wheel completely looses grip (so that's a patch of Ice/Gravel or Bouncing of the road or lifting on a severe manover) - ABS goes awol.

We are not alone

Paul

PS: http://auto.howstuff...-lock-brake.htm
has some interesting links at the end.

[toreide]

My experience is as follows: When I got my Speedster in February it still had the original ABS. It was outright dangerous. I had Opel change it FOC, and since then it has worked perfectly. Is there a chance there are more than 2 revisions of the abs ecu out there? Mine was fitted 05/2004. This could be why some people who has had the upgrade still get bad braking performance. If not, it's very weird we should experience the braking performance so differently.

[Fen]

Look forward to reading the letter in full!

Meanwhile, following an mention in another thread, I used Google to search on

abs 'ice-mode'

And variants. And lo - we're not the only people who've seen it - it's NOT car specific! Take a look but mentions go to a 350z, a Suzuki (Jimny - ugh!), scoobi's and some Jeeps. Basically if a wheel completely looses grip (so that's a patch of Ice/Gravel or Bouncing of the road or lifting on a severe manover) - ABS goes awol.

We are not alone

Paul

PS: http://auto.howstuff...-lock-brake.htm
has some interesting links at the end.

Interesting you should say that - I had a current model Seat Ibiza TDi for a (short) while and it had exactly the same problem as I think you guys are seeing with the VX; sometimes there just wasn't any braking available if the ABS had triggered.

The thing with the Beezer was that there was no patter through the pedal, it was just like the ABS released the pressure to unlock a wheel then 'forgot' to reapply it again. It was also evident that it was not capable of controlling one wheel alone as it cut the braking force entirely. One time it happened when it wasn't a frigtening situation I literally stood on the pedal and it just drifted gracefully to a halt. Very scary / potentially dangerous and not uncommon among drivers of the car according to the Seat boards.

I didn't every speak to the dealer about it but it was a contributer to my selling the car after 4 months.

[Jim Mitch]

The thing with the Beezer was that there was no patter through the pedal, it was just like the ABS released the pressure to unlock a wheel then 'forgot' to reapply it again. It was also evident that it was not capable of controlling one wheel alone as it cut the braking force entirely. One time it happened when it wasn't a frigtening situation I literally stood on the pedal and it just drifted gracefully to a halt. Very scary / potentially dangerous and not uncommon among drivers of the car according to the Seat boards.

I have had lots of problems with the ABS on my Ibiza Cupra (virtually from new). It's got to the stage where it even comes on without pressing the brake sometimes (at least the motor/pump - or whatever it is that causes the brakes to catch/release - comes on). No brake activation - just the pump.

I gather it's something to do with the sensor(s) being out of alignment. Only takes a very slight mis-alignment to make it trigger at strange moments.

Nothing dangerous (yet) in nearly 5 years of ownership, but none of the dealers it has been to (at least 4) seem to be able, or willing, to do anything about it.

[Thorney]

I'm in the process of trying to sort a drift/rear wheel drive training day, perhaps we could also do some testing on the ABS then? Any idea what kid of tests we can do, they would need to be properly done.

[Whiteboy]

Thorney I like the sound of the driver training day

[goofballs]

Total fob off. They get someone to reply with some technical mumbo jumbo and hope that they get scared off. As a next question, ask them why they decided to upgrade the module for the VXR and 111R, when there were no perceived problems with the original ABS module. cheers

[iandhd]

How can it be some owners experience problems and some don't?? To the best of my knowledge my car is on the original software and generally it's OK. I think I know what the problem feels like though as mine went beserk on Saturday as I was coming downhill approaching a T-junction. The surface was a bit pitted and bumpy and it honestly sounded like the wheels were going to fall off and I had little stopping power. Why is it that it tends to be worse when travelling downhill, is it just that there's more momentum?

[Turbo Head]

Just done the X-Power track day at Combe and it's the first chance Iv'e had to try the brakes on track since I changed to Mintex Pads and Pagid Disks. Previously at Combe the ABS has kicked in braking before Esses where the track is bumpy. Today no problem wet or dry ABS didn't kick in once all day. IMO because the braking is more efficient I'm not having to brake so hard therefore ABS doesn't kick in, could be bollocks. The ABS has only kicked in once since this mod and that was braking on a manhole cover.