25 replies to this topic

[Hark]

I've done a bit of reading of old threads.  

 

So Vauxhall fitted the original 17" front for aesthetics( and possibly to er on the side of understeer? )

 

The 16"/17" TD gives a wider range of tyres and is also meant to give the best handling.... or so I've read.

 

Can someone explain the last bit to me? Why is the 16" front better than a 17" front if the width of the wheel was the same?  (I can understand why the wider front would be better than the standard 175)

 

I can guess that the 17" will be marginally heavier, therefore more effort to turn in possibly?  

 

Has anyone ran 17" fronts on non standard wheels and has a comparison?  Didn't Cliffie run 17" fronts at some point?  And didn't Jimmys time attack car run ATS DTC 17" all round?  - How do those compare in the handling stakes?  

 

[ChrisS1]

Quite a few people are on 17 all round now.

general concensus seems to be to increase rear tyre width to 235 and run 205 up front.

[smiley]

16" seems to be a UK thing only. (not sure if the vxr version triggered the eagerness for 16"' fronts)

Germany for example is very hooked on 17" dtc's all round. 

 

[noplex]

Ride will improve due to increased sidewall of tyre on the 16" wheel. Usually lower profile would give better handling as there is less flex in the sidewall (tyre dependant) allowing use of better compound (more sticky), so not sure why handling would be better on 16s other than that is the way the chassis behaves best as was originally designed that way? Not a wheel expert but work alongside a fair few so have a basic knowledge.

[2deano5]

My impression is everyone runs 16/17 as that's what the elise S2 runs so it must be right, right

 

I've gone from standard to 16/17 to 17/17  standard to 16 made turn in sharper from 16 to 17 I could not feel any difference but then I'm ham fisted

Edited by 2deano5, 16 August 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Rosssco]

Recently went from using 16" / 17" combo to 17" all round (ATS wheels). Both had 205 front / 235 rear.

 

I really don't notice much difference in the handling at all.

 

The ride is similar, but perhaps slightly better on the 17's even though I've dropped a profile size both front and rear. Primary reason for this is moving away from a R-spec tyre (595 RS-R) to a more road-spec (but still quite stiff sidewalls) tyre (AD08).

 

The tyre size (and subsequently it weight), type, wheel offset and geo make the difference to handling, not so much whether its 16's or 17's IMO..

Edited by Rosssco, 16 August 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[fezzasus]

Lotus have a habit of raiding the parts bin to get what they want, they don't have the buying power or demand for parts that let them specify parts to order. 

 

I suspect they took this approach when deciding the wheel/tyre sizes. 165/175 profile tyres are mainly available in 16", so that's what they went for. Vauxhall did the opposite and specified a tyre that had to be made to order, because that's what they're used to being able to do.

[MWS]

I run Vectra SRI Facelift Alloys on my NA.

 

They are 7J x 17" all round. I run 195/45/17 tyres on the front with 22/45/17 on the rear.

 

My experience with the change is the car feel more stable (particularly at higher speed) and has less understeer (although this might be simply down to newer rubber).

 

Main reason for me changing though was aesthetics and fancied something a bit unique

 

 

 

[denno]

Those vectra wheels really suit your vx

[Hark]

My impression is everyone runs 16/17 as that's what the elise S2 runs so it must be right, right

 

I've gone from standard to 16/17 to 17/17  standard to 16 made turn in sharper from 16 to 17 I could not feel any difference but then I'm ham fisted

 

That's very helpful.  Only met you once, (Snetterton I think), and you were quicker than me, so if it works for you I think it'll work for me.  

 

 

Will a 17" wheel close the front arch gap at all, or not if the rolling radius is the same?

 

 

Shame ATS wheels are both hugely expensive and rare as rocking horse s**t or they would be perfect.  

[Bobby]

I've gone from OEM with bridgestones to 16/17 TDs with T1-Rs and the change in handling is obvious.

 

Turn in is sharper but the one thing I wasn't expecting was the increased tendency for lift off oversteer; never had that (to any significant degree) with the OEM setup.

 

I don't know the science behind it but I know I need to be more careful when pushing on 16/17, but I feel I can take turns faster with it (with practice).

[smiley]

 

 

Shame ATS wheels are both hugely expensive and rare as rocking horse s**t or they would be perfect.  

 

 

And with each being 200 grams heavier then TD 1.2's, it get's even more difficult to justify double the price.

 

ATS's are for germans (and lee)

[MWS]

Those vectra wheels really suit your vx

 

Thanks pal. It should look a little better once i take it off the temporary tubby shocks and put it onto the Gaz Nickels i've just bought.  

[2deano5]

 

My impression is everyone runs 16/17 as that's what the elise S2 runs so it must be right, right

 

I've gone from standard to 16/17 to 17/17  standard to 16 made turn in sharper from 16 to 17 I could not feel any difference but then I'm ham fisted

 

That's very helpful.  Only met you once, (Snetterton I think), and you were quicker than me, so if it works for you I think it'll work for me.  

 

 

Will a 17" wheel close the front arch gap at all, or not if the rolling radius is the same?

 

 

Shame ATS wheels are both hugely expensive and rare as rocking horse s**t or they would be perfect.  

 

 

Hum, I'm not sure what wheels I was running at snetterton, It definitely was not my 17/17 combo I have now I think it might have been standard   but If I was fast   probably the 16/17 as they had 888 on.

 

The arch gap wont change enough for you to notice it as the rolling radius although different is not really enough to notice visually.

 

I looked into this for a long time and there really is little option if you want different wheels without spending 1k or using spacers but then you will crash and die at the first corner

 

+1 for those Vectra Wheels

Edited by 2deano5, 16 August 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[siztenboots]

one of the other reasons for the 16" was the belief that the abs would be better

[JohnTurbo]

16s = like running hubs with a raised centre.

 

For the same wishbone angle you can get your weight lower.

[Sammyturbo]

I've gone from OEM with bridgestones to 16/17 TDs with T1-Rs and the change in handling is obvious.   Turn in is sharper but the one thing I wasn't expecting was the increased tendency for lift off oversteer; never had that (to any significant degree) with the OEM setup.   I don't know the science behind it but I know I need to be more careful when pushing on 16/17, but I feel I can take turns faster with it (with practice).

I agree with the lift off oversteer comments although it could be down to the geo

[Arno]

In many cases: smaller wheel == lighter, expecially as tyre weight (when keeping the same rolling radius) doesn't change that much as you go to a 'taller' type.

 

Even Lotus didn't get away from the 'aesthetics' issue as the S2 was slated to originally get 15/16" wheels like the S1 (15" is the smallest wheel that the 288mm discs and calipers will fit comfortably so can't go smaller), but they went for 16/17 as a visually better looking option.

 

the S1 and S2 shapes are also designed to work with a 'staggered' wheel setup with smaller ones up front compared to rear.

 

Bye, Arno.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

Quite a few people are on 17 all round now.

general concensus seems to be to increase rear tyre width to 235 and run 205 up front.

 

Im on 17 compos all round,205 235, find the steering lighter then with standard wheels and sharper. Lizy commented it felt "nicer" over the bumps.

 

kumos ku39s

 

I have no comparison for the 16s front, I just don't like the look

[Hark]

Got any recent pics Stuwy?