793 replies to this topic

[TazN]

I really couldn't be bothered wasting my time reading all of the ocuk's thread.

 

Have you thought about and planned a budget for the season? Following the entries over the last few years on here it's taken some serious commitment not just from the drivers but a whole team to get the car to the very end.

 

Look forward to seeing what your first testing shows.

[CocoPops]

Fair play. Shame you chose an Elise and not a VX though

[turbotoaster]

I really couldn't be bothered wasting my time reading all of the ocuk's thread.

 

Have you thought about and planned a budget for the season? Following the entries over the last few years on here it's taken some serious commitment not just from the drivers but a whole team to get the car to the very end.

 

Look forward to seeing what your first testing shows.

 

The plan is to get the car all done by xmas so it gives me time to put money aside every month towards the budget, then use my wages to each month to keep the car going, I wont be upgrading the car throughout the year, whatever I start the season with i will run to the end whether im first or last

 

I dont have any team as such, just me and my best friend, so fixing, repairing, tactics and fueling will pretty much all be down to me, with my mate being on the radio letting me know what sort of times people are doing.

 

I notice quite a few of the competitors have a decent size team but I dont have many car friends really who would want to loose a weekend to help so I have to do it all myself so ill have to plan my weekend and prep my car to make sure theres no simple maintenance parts that can spoil my weekend and so I dont miss anything in the madness

 

Ill be sleeping in a tent and bringing my own food to try and keep my costs to a minimum, got a cheap volvo estate to tow the car there and carry tools and tyres

 

Im really hoping that Chris can find a good setup with the car so that its fast enough to win, it will just be only my talent that keeps it from the top spot.

 

Fair play. Shame you chose an Elise and not a VX though

 

I looked at elise s1, s2 and vx220 turbo before purchasing but the reason I wanted a lotus chassis was I wanted the lightest possible version to begin with and for the s1 chassis wins.

 

I dont think it would be possible to get a vx220 to 670kg

 

Plus with me coming across a supercharged s1 with alot of parts on it that I was going to buy anyway it saved me alot of money

[Mangham54]

Given the stringent budget you sound to have I wish you the best of luck. I know your spolier brackets are clearly marmite. I am sorry to say I am in the negative camp, but more as concern for others safety if they were to hit the back of your car). Credit where credit is due... your replies are dignified, even in the face of heavy critique. A few people on here could learn a lesson or two in this matter (and I don't discount myself from thay list). You have good support if you have Chris Randall on board. Be warned though - there are some in your level at TimeAttack that are vying for blood and won't like the idea of another Lotus mixing it up in their championship.

[turbotoaster]

Chris I have to say has been the nicest bloke I have had the pleasure of talking to, he has been very helpful and has plenty of time to discuss things with me but also very critical when required which is a nice balance, I dont want to deal with a yes man when im needing someone to set the car up, but I also dont want someone to discredit every idea I come up with.

 

Ive left the setup work to him and I am using his technical knowledge to make sure all my purchases are done once and once only so when hes setting it up, he will have everything he needs to achieve the optimum setup, hence making best use of my budget, so at least ill know that any mechanical grip is designed to give the maximum it can, then we will just be working on aero balance in the higher speed corners(which chris should be able to differentiate what is aero and what is mechanical)  and which I have quite a few ideas on how to create alot more frontal downforce which ill probably be working on between now and the test day.

 

Im sure I wont be the most popular car to turn up after the dominance of the lotus chassis has had, but everyone I have spoke to including ronnie in the cosworth who won it last year has been very positive and are happy to have me on board(I even gave him some advice on helping with his future aero package...it doesnt have a big rear wing before anyone panics)

 

I think the car that will give me the most competition will be the rx7 as it has a pretty decent double wishbone layout, good weight distribution and if setup properly can be very fast in the right drivers hands.

 

I dont mind at all that people wont like the car, I find it interesting peoples opinions on it, the rear uprights wont stay that way at all, they were just there as test pieces to get the wing in the correct position and see how the uprights react to sideway stresses etc, ill be remaking them to come out of the same place but rise to the wing in a different way to reduce there weight.

 

I did infact mention this a few times in that thread but it seemed people ignored what I wrote and just commented on the pictures, so after a while I enjoyed poking them with a stick, might make a fake chargecooler from a tesco lemonade bottle and a supersoaker for a chargecooler pump, I think there would be meltdown!

[Mangham54]

I did infact mention this a few times in that thread but it seemed people ignored what I wrote and just commented on the pictures, so after a while I enjoyed poking them with a stick, might make a fake chargecooler from a tesco lemonade bottle and a supersoaker for a chargecooler pump, I think there would be meltdown!

 

 Please do...

 

I must have missed that point as I read through your original thread - was reading it in the passenger seat on my phone so could have missed a page or two.

 

I wish you well... and it does sound like that you should have fun. Be having read through Jimmy, Mike and Darron's experiences, Ronnie and Umar are very good with their 'talk tactics' so don't fall into their traps.

[turbotoaster]

Ive already heard from a few competitors what they will do, sandbag alot of the weekend and even in the start of the qualifying, so you do enough to be 1st, then smash a fast lap in at the end(just quick enough to win) so you dont have time to respond, but because its only just beat you, you try a little harder and maybe better your time and again at the end they smash you lap.

 

My plan is to take my time and be easy on my tyres while i learn the circuits, then pump in a different hot sector on each lap(maybe try sector 1 a couple of times, then move to sector 2 etc) so I can then calculate what my perfect lap would be.

 

Then when it comes to qualifying ill have an idea if there is enough in the car and myself to win rather than playing cat and mouse with the other competitors, as all you end up doing is burning your tyres out wasting time doing laps so when you get to the point where you really need to pump the fast ones in your tyres are past there peak.

 

 

I was thinking about buying 2 sets of tyres, one with a hard compound to use to learn the circuit, the lines and generally work on the flow of the circuit, when to brake, when to go full throttle at corner entry etc, then when the times really count put on the softs and go for it.

 

That way i wont be wasting the softs and heat cycling the best out of them, it also means my competitors wont really know how fast I am as they will see me pushing on hard tyres and assume they know my level, also the hards will last ages so will cut down on me buying tyres.........whether this idea will actually work im unsure but it seems to make sense.

 

Personally I just want to lap as fast as possible and if I came last in the championship I wouldnt get upset about it as long as I know I got the very fastest lap out of my setup.

[fezzasus]

 

 

I was thinking about buying 2 sets of tyres, one with a hard compound to use to learn the circuit, the lines and generally work on the flow of the circuit, when to brake, when to go full throttle at corner entry etc, then when the times really count put on the softs and go for it.

 

That's a bad idea. How do you know grip levels if you lean the circuit on different tyres?

 

Take some time to read through Mike's thread in the project section. The biggest issue he had in 2012 was getting clean laps in. You want to be on the right tyres for the times when the traffic clears and you can put a good lap in.

[siztenboots]

just spend the budget on tyres and track time

[Mike (Cliffie)]

[color=#ff0000;]DO NOT BUY SOFT KUMHOS[/color]

 

That there is the best advice you will get-ever!

 

You should stick here, there are a lot of folks who will wish you luck and enjoy following progress. 

 

Have you thought about which wet tyres you will run?

 

There is a lot of TA exprience here from builders, seter uppers, drivers and crew which between them have bagged five championships in three years including Jamie; that is a pretty strong support network right there.

 

BTW, be under no illusions, this will cost you... a lot. Even without breakdowns you need to expect to spend between £7K and 10K for a season.

 

 

Edited by Mike (Cliffie), 07 November 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[speedster]

Well im glad to be famous on here.

 

I do a fair bit of reading on here to gleam any bits of hints, tips and also I enjoy reading peoples project threads, ive known about this thread for a couple of days and havent said anything to see what comments im getting.

 

In regards of the actual setup of the vehicle, ive been searching for as much advise as I can, having chris randall set the car up(toe, caster, camber etc) and also coming up with my own solutions for wishbone angles to allow me to run lower to help with aero and COG.

 

Running a very large splitter, canards and end fences, this with my skirts I hope will be enough to balance my wing at a decent AofA, the good thing is though that even if theres not alot of downforce produced by the front I can just wind the wing back(i shouldnt need to as im following the theory of my aerodynamics book closely.

 

Im sure your loving the idea of turbocharging a rover k series, but im bringing on someone who knows turbod k series fairly well(he did work on the 217mph car) and is  very confident he can get a 350bhp engine to hold together as long as we can keep the water temps sensible.

 

As Nev says, least im trying and doing things my own way, I would rather try, fail and learn from it then sit behind a keyboard and wonder.

 

If I followed what everyone on that thread said I would have still have stock elise bodywork, have spent £15000 on a supercharged honda engine(which I cant afford) and wonder why im coming last.

 

Im building mine with the aspirations of winning my class and my ideas reflect my budget, as they say, you can tame a fast car, you cant make a slow car fast.

 

 

Rather that maaasive rear wing and diffuser would it not be better to alter the cars undertray? I'm interested in your k turbo charging, I have a landrover freelander project and want to add more horses. I'm thinking itbs as i prefer na but 350 is a nice number. Do you have any more info on the turbo conversion? Good luck on the track, i think anybody behind you will be scared shirtless

[smiley]

I dont mind at all that people wont like the car, I find it interesting peoples opinions on it, the rear uprights wont stay that way at all, they were just there as test pieces to get the wing in the correct position and see how the uprights react to sideway stresses etc, ill be remaking them to come out of the same place but rise to the wing in a different way to reduce there weight.

 

What is the theory behind the uprights to be that far behind the car? 

[turbotoaster]

 

 

 

I was thinking about buying 2 sets of tyres, one with a hard compound to use to learn the circuit, the lines and generally work on the flow of the circuit, when to brake, when to go full throttle at corner entry etc, then when the times really count put on the softs and go for it.

 

That's a bad idea. How do you know grip levels if you lean the circuit on different tyres?

 

Take some time to read through Mike's thread in the project section. The biggest issue he had in 2012 was getting clean laps in. You want to be on the right tyres for the times when the traffic clears and you can put a good lap in.

 

 

well it will be the same tyres just a harder compound, its more spending time learning the flow of the circuit etc, what lines are faster and what are slower, I notice alot have a trackday the day before, so if im running hards I should be able to get a full day out of them verses any softer compound.

 

Finding the grip level on softer rubber will be a learning curve, but being able to adapt to it will be much quicker than munching them trying to learn the circuit as well as the grip level.....if I split the learning into 2 seperate sections it seems more managable, plus by the time i get to qualifying I wont have either bald tyres or heat cycled to hell.

 

Since its only qualifying and final that count for anything they would be where i would run the softer rubber.

 

 

[color=#ff0000;]DO NOT BUY SOFT KUMHOS[/color]

 

That there is the best advice you will get-ever!

 

You should stick here, there are a lot of folks who will wish you luck and enjoy following progress. 

 

Have you thought about which wet tyres you will run?

 

There is a lot of TA exprience here from builders, seter uppers, drivers and crew which between them have bagged five championships in three years including Jamie; that is a pretty strong support network right there.

 

BTW, be under no illusions, this will cost you... a lot. Even without breakdowns you need to expect to spend between £7K and 10K for a season.

 

 

I didnt mean all soft, I was going to go for soft front and medium rear, the reason i thought soft front was because im running 225s  so larger surface area per kilo of weight,which will take longer to warm up than 205s and will help the front end to bite in the low speed corners, as mentioned above if your struggling to get a clean lap and spend alot of time circulating at slow speed(im guessing you do this if you get blocked and behind your best time) then it will be easier to turn the tires on the next lap?

 

Hadnt really thought about wet tyres to much, I was just going to put my 111s wheels on with ad07s and take my time so i dont crash

 

I was thinking 3 sets of tyres £1800

fuel for the towcar £500

fuel for the race car £300

entry fee £3000

brake pads and discs £1000

servicing items including ball joints, wheelbearings £500

repairs £1000

 

Does that seem reasonable?

 

 

 

 

Well im glad to be famous on here.

 

I do a fair bit of reading on here to gleam any bits of hints, tips and also I enjoy reading peoples project threads, ive known about this thread for a couple of days and havent said anything to see what comments im getting.

 

In regards of the actual setup of the vehicle, ive been searching for as much advise as I can, having chris randall set the car up(toe, caster, camber etc) and also coming up with my own solutions for wishbone angles to allow me to run lower to help with aero and COG.

 

Running a very large splitter, canards and end fences, this with my skirts I hope will be enough to balance my wing at a decent AofA, the good thing is though that even if theres not alot of downforce produced by the front I can just wind the wing back(i shouldnt need to as im following the theory of my aerodynamics book closely.

 

Im sure your loving the idea of turbocharging a rover k series, but im bringing on someone who knows turbod k series fairly well(he did work on the 217mph car) and is  very confident he can get a 350bhp engine to hold together as long as we can keep the water temps sensible.

 

As Nev says, least im trying and doing things my own way, I would rather try, fail and learn from it then sit behind a keyboard and wonder.

 

If I followed what everyone on that thread said I would have still have stock elise bodywork, have spent £15000 on a supercharged honda engine(which I cant afford) and wonder why im coming last.

 

Im building mine with the aspirations of winning my class and my ideas reflect my budget, as they say, you can tame a fast car, you cant make a slow car fast.

 

 

Rather that maaasive rear wing and diffuser would it not be better to alter the cars undertray? I'm interested in your k turbo charging, I have a landrover freelander project and want to add more horses. I'm thinking itbs as i prefer na but 350 is a nice number. Do you have any more info on the turbo conversion? Good luck on the track, i think anybody behind you will be scared shirtless

 

Ive already made a new undertray, it is the full width of the vehicle all the way from tyre to tyre and have end plates to stop air getting underneath, ive just cut a small section at each end for when the car is jacked up to clear the upright.

 

Im using a turbo technics low compression engine with a vvc head(solid cams) made a manifold which puts the turbo over the top of the engine and a downpipe which goes over the gearbox, running a chargecooler.

 

 

I dont mind at all that people wont like the car, I find it interesting peoples opinions on it, the rear uprights wont stay that way at all, they were just there as test pieces to get the wing in the correct position and see how the uprights react to sideway stresses etc, ill be remaking them to come out of the same place but rise to the wing in a different way to reduce there weight.

 

What is the theory behind the uprights to be that far behind the car? 

 

 

3 reasons mainly.

 

1. Everything I have read on aerodynamics state the wing will be more effective further back from the vehicle to try and pick up as much clean air as possible, this means I can run the wing at a less of angle to achieve a certain level of downforce so less overall drag.

2. An effective wing creates a decent low pressure zone directly beneath its cord, im going to try and use that low pressure zone to drag air out from the clam shell(hence me cutting open the number plate zone) this will hopefully assist with keeping the air flowing through and helping with oil temps and ambient heat cooking parts or raising inlet temps

3. If I find that the diffuser is not very effective at the length ive made it I can shorten it down enough at it will interact with the low pressure zone created by the wing to help scavaging the air from under the chassis which in turn makes all of the underbody work more efficiently and create more downforce.

Edited by turbotoaster, 08 November 2013 - 12:42 AM.

[GeorgeBC]

Your fuel bill seems way off id say £100 per race day. The rest could work but repair bills could be anything, i can only imagine a 350bhp k series isn't going to be reliable and therefore a lot more expensive than £1000 over the season. This year there wasn't a trackday before each round so we were having to do test days at different times which meant paying for travelling twice to each circuit which soon racks up. You could be lucky and costs could be low. We weren't so lucky this year and i don't know what the year cost Darron but do know it was £1000's more than we were expecting. It also depends how you treat your car throughout the year as the majority of people do as few a laps as possible and don't push too hard for very long on test days. Darron always enjoyed a working car so when it was working it got spanked for as long as possible, he's a bit thick you see.

 

As others have said traffic is a massive problem and we sometimes had sessions without any clear laps so you have to keep pushing for most of the session then back off that lap if its been ruined. 

 

Everyone at each round is really friendly and i hope you do well and enjoy it! 

[fezzasus]

Take some of that budget, go to cliffie or jimmyjamjerulasm and get driver training from them.

[chris_uk]

Take some of that budget, go to cliffie or jimmyjamjerulasm and get driver training from them.

No offence to either, but if he's going to get driver training from anyone someone who does it for a living and knows what they are doing is who he should be going to.. Malcom, who jimmy went to seems quite highly rated..

[siztenboots]

no costs in for accomodation?

[chris_uk]

no costs in for accomodation?

Hes already said hes planning on sleeping in a tent.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

We killed a set of soft fronts in one 20 minute session at Anglessey last year and then another set in two rounds this year. The extreme wear is not offset by a large enough increase in performance. Please trust me and save your money and do not buy soft fronts.

 

Any training is better than no training at all and is a good investment especially at circuits you will visit next year. Chris and Jimmy are both brilliant at lap analysis using a V-Box and you can learn a load from either of them plus we have a load of video data from the last three years which can help. Overlaying Jimmy's Snett data with mine and proper analysis found me over two seconds last year on the 300 circuit.

 

You are woefully underestimating the fuel costs. Some of the longer haul races could cost over £300 in fuel alone but £200 a round is about right.

 

Buy the right discs and pads at the beginning of the season and they will last all season. My 2013 set up was awesome and I reckon we are only a third of the way through the pads. Invest in some good brake fluid and expect to do a caliper bleed halfway through the season to refresh.

 

Wet tyres are important so don't ignore them and hope for the best. You are able to run anything in List A or B as a wet tyre. We won the championship in 2012 because we could run better in the wet than the Cossie and tyres are key in that. I don't know the Yoko AD07 and have no experience of it and it may well be a smart choice but I assume it will be a 16/17 combo which will alter your geo if the car is set up for the Kumhos. Worth bearing this in mind.

 

 

 

 

[siztenboots]

 

no costs in for accomodation?

Hes already said hes planning on sleeping in a tent.

 

 

its a lot of work then for just one person