19 replies to this topic

[MartinS]

Step 1/ Take off the 17 inch, wider, ATS wheels (in my case fitted with Yokohama Ad08r's 205/40/17 and 235/45/17).

 

Step 2/ Refit 17/16 combo TD wheels with 888's

 

Result. A car that grips better. That bit is fairly obvious with the tyre combos here but it really did suddenly feel like  the car was being pushed onto the ground and yet steered more lightly and made the car come to life again. It steers better, rides better and just feels so much better in every way.

 

I have had many wheel and tyre combinations over the years and each time there was a slight improvement or degradation of the car but I have never fealt such an instant leap in how good the car fealt. I was grinning all the way to the track on Saturday and grinning even harder once on track and the good old 888's did there job.

I know many will disagree and there are many other tyre combos and, as these are now my road/wet day wheel combo I will try and give my ATS DTC's wheels more of a chance, but to me its now obvious why for so many years we all here in the UK stuck with the 17/16 TD combination.

 

Martin S

 

[jameso]

Interesting observation martin... personally i think tyres compound makes a huge difference and this is what you are feeling here:

 

I went from semi-slicks on 16/17 speedlines to khumos on 16/17 speedlines and  hated it, car felt hugely different and I could spin up the rears in 3rd in the dry.

 

Swapped to 17 inch and wider wheels with R1R 225 fronts and 245 rears and car felt really good again.

 

Could be wrong but I reckon you are feeling the huge difference in tyre more so than the wheels?

[VIX]

but to me its now obvious why for so many years we all here in the UK stuck with the 17/16 TD combination.

Nearest to OEM from Lotus ... I agree it's probably more down to the rubber. IIRC you had terrible issues with T1Rs in the above wheel sizes.

[Steve.i.am]

I've yet to drive mine in anger since swapping my 16/17 TD's for the DTC's.

 

As well as tyres, could geometry be having some effect? That is, swapping 7.5Jx17 rears to 9Jx17 and 7Jx16 fronts to 7.5Jx17 without adjusting any geometry be having some detrimental effect?

 

 

[JG]

Tell us something we don't already know

[Steffen]

@Martin

 

Put on your ATS DTC Kumho v700 medium and you will be 3 seconds faster than your 16/17 R888 combi!

[MartinS]

It may be geometry related as the car is set up for the 17 16 combo, but most of what I feel is I believe down to the extra widths of the wheels. I intend to still use my 17/16 combo set up so my geometry will stay set up for that though. However, 888's are well known for there tramlining yet the Yokohamas on the wider wheels are even worse, the steering also feels heavier with the ATS (in a bad way not the extra confidence kind of way) even though the tyres are less grippy and the whole car just feels less flickable than with the TD's.

I dont want to put anyone off getting these, theyre well like abroad (where they have better roads)  and I may hopefully change my mind, Steve is alos right in that a good geometry set up, may well sort things out

but as adding these wheels and tyres is an expensive mod, people should be aware that its not always necessarily garunteed to 100% improve their car.

Martin S

ps Generally tyres I've had (A039, R1r, 888's even Kumho KU31's) have just improved the car each time, only adding T1R's (for a month) ever caused me dissapointment before.

 

[Steffen]

Maybe your problem is your geometry?

[Bargi]

Same reason Lee is looking for a set of 16s for his car

[jameso]

Oddly I found the khumos really terrible after coming from A048. They just didn't have enough grip for a stage 4 turbo at the rear in a straight line and I hated the super light steering at the front relative to the semi slicks. I don't think they were bad tyres just the feel was wrong for me after coming off the semis.

 

R1R I really rate, even at 225 fronts and 245 rear - perhaps I really like heavier steering - A lot of this is feel I think and what you are used to.

[Rosssco]

Of course the car will handle differently, you've changed front / rear track width and scrub radius (I think), wheel / tyre (unsprung) weight, overall tyre diameter, tyre compound and size incl. side wall, tyre width etc.

 

You should in theory get the geo altered slightly.

 

I had done a very similar swithch previously, and never noticed much different TBH, although I never drove that hard or tracked using the different combo's.

[MartinS]

I knew it would handle differently and I knew the risks of wider wheels, different tyres etc, I also knew that if these were my only wheels I should get a geo done to match, I was just explaining what I have found swapping between the two.

I am pretty sure if these wheels had 888's on as well, the car still wouldnt be as nimble and balanced as it is on the 16 17 combo, which is my prime point.

Just highlighting that if you get these for the combo of looks and maybe more grip there are downsides and the reduction of nimbleness is it.

 

Martin S

 

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I found the setup Steffen refers to was the best for me with the setup I had on the old race car but that was a pretty aggressive setup so probably not for everyone.

 

If I had another road going VX I would stick to 16/17's

[Lou_m]

My front ride height changed about 7mm when I want from 16" AD08's to 17" AD08's.

[TFD]

Nice update while my new set DTC's with fresh RSR-rubber is waiting in the garage

 

Lol JK.

 

For me it will be an improvement over the OEM wheelcombo I reckon. .

[vocky]

they tramline a little on mine, but I have gone from OEM, not 100% sure of I like them yet 

[chris_uk]

if you plonked R888's straight onto the ATS wheels they should feel better.

 

however.. after my croft trackday ive decided that generally a track setup on the vx needs to have a bit more camber that we usually state as a track geo.

 

im thinking 2degs front and 3degs rear (i have 1.5 front and 2.5 rear atm) will just give you that extra corner stability, i could see on my tyres that they were rolling over a little too much leading me to believe there was not enough camber.. should of really pyro'd it to get a better idea.

[Dave E]

The chassis was designed round 15"/16" wheels for the s1 Elise at a specific ride height, the further you venture away from that, without doing significant changes to other parts of the setup, then the further you get away from optimum. But of course differently tyres will always make a big difference in both feel and grip levels.

Edited by Dave E, 08 April 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[Crabash]

The chassis was designed round 15"/16" wheels for the s1 Elise at a specific ride height, the further you venture away from that, without doing significant changes to other parts of the setup, then the further you get away from optimum. But of course differently tyres will always make a big difference in both feel and grip levels.

 

 

That doesn't really hold up though because almost all have made other significant changes.

Also the Elise or VX were never designed to be optimum, they were designed to offer the best performance experience they could for a certain cost to the customer whilst generating as much profit as possible, be that in hard cash or publicity.

 

At the end of the day it all depends on your intended use and priorities, that may mean aesthetics has some importance, or it may mean all that matters is lap times. If no one tried anything different we would all have standard wheels and tires.

[Paulus H]

Agree trying stuf out is good Beiing a sheep is bad Kindly, Paul