Member
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:29 AM
Has anybody else bought the rear brace bar from Elise Shop?
http://www.vx220.org...do=new_post&f=9
Mine is 670 mm eye to eye and this is to wide when trying to mount it. However, according to Elise Shop this is the correct bar for the vx220.
I’m confused...
RaceMode
Member
Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:50 PM
I did, and 670mm is the right bar for VX220. When I measure my sub frame I get 655 mm.
Maybe someone is working on their car and can take this measure, or maybe measure on another brace bar? Would be much appreciated!
Supercharger of Doom
Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:11 PM
Guess it totally depends on the uprated toe link kit you've got fitted as well. I've just measured my Spitfire brace bar that is no longer on the car because of the exhaust and it measures approx 540mm between the centre of the bolt each side. I've no idea what the Elise Shop brace bar actually attaches to.
RaceMode
Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:15 PM
Guess it totally depends on the uprated toe link kit you've got fitted as well. I've just measured my Spitfire brace bar that is no longer on the car because of the exhaust and it measures approx 540mm between the centre of the bolt each side. I've no idea what the Elise Shop brace bar actually attaches to
that uses inboard brackets, so not using the lower wishbone bolt fixings
Supercharger of Doom
Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:22 PM
Indeed it does but there's no way there is 65mm each side between the two left side bolts or the two right side bolts as Elise Shop are claiming if it's meant to be 670mm wide.
Need to get Out More
Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:42 PM
Has anybody else bought the rear brace bar from Elise Shop?
http://www.vx220.org...do=new_post&f=9
Mine is 670 mm eye to eye and this is to wide when trying to mount it. However, according to Elise Shop this is the correct bar for the vx220.
I’m confused...
When you say mine is too wide do you mean your subframe or the bar you bought?
Edited by Spitfire Engineering, 29 July 2014 - 08:02 PM.
Need to get Out More
Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:46 PM
Guess it totally depends on the uprated toe link kit you've got fitted as well. I've just measured my Spitfire brace bar that is no longer on the car because of the exhaust and it measures approx 540mm between the centre of the bolt each side. I've no idea what the Elise Shop brace bar actually attaches to.
Bit sad you had to remove it, there are two other brace options for the VX now by the way, both of them articulated.
i am sheldon cooper
Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:26 PM
Guess it totally depends on the uprated toe link kit you've got fitted as well. I've just measured my Spitfire brace bar that is no longer on the car because of the exhaust and it measures approx 540mm between the centre of the bolt each side. I've no idea what the Elise Shop brace bar actually attaches to.
Bit sad you had to remove it, there are two other brace options for the VX now by the way, both of them articulated.
Tell me more Gaz!
I too had to take the brace bar off when I had the Milltek fitted. Does this articulated brace fit exactly the same space as the standard brace bar ?
Need to get Out More
Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:13 PM
Guess it totally depends on the uprated toe link kit you've got fitted as well. I've just measured my Spitfire brace bar that is no longer on the car because of the exhaust and it measures approx 540mm between the centre of the bolt each side. I've no idea what the Elise Shop brace bar actually attaches to.
Bit sad you had to remove it, there are two other brace options for the VX now by the way, both of them articulated.
Tell me more Gaz!
I too had to take the brace bar off when I had the Milltek fitted. Does this articulated brace fit exactly the same space as the standard brace bar ?
No, both of the new options are rearward of the original bar we designed about 10 years ago or so.
One design keeps the toe-link bracket in place and the brace locks onto the rear of the bracket.
The second design works with the solid spigot rear mount, this was designed with the help of Liam at MMG and he is pretty expert in making them fit, 100% success so far there is no subframe bracket with this design.
All 3 designs have a working range and between them just about cover the entire range of possible fittings.
All brace options use a bearing to allow articulation in the two planes where you do not want the brace to restrict movement, this is for several reasons, firstly it will interfere with the compliance of the subframe sides in the vertical plain, this is part of the normal suspension movement, (not that a solid mounted brace will help you anyway as the forces are too great, a 500+mm bar trapped under a bolt while you wiggle the other side up and down will just grind the material away under the bolt head).
you basically have a 500mm+ spanner!
When Lotus tried this with the Toyo subframe it ate the bushes at an alarming rate.
The other plane you want to leave alone is the longitudinal one, this is a bit harder to visualise and it occurs under cornering when both sides of the chassis longerons rotate in the same direction. The loaded corner will rotate further of course if not restricted (this is the motion you ARE trying to restrict) but you end up with the longerons trying to form a trapezium with the brace.
The effect on a solid mount now is to increase the tension in the bolts as the brace tries to lever the bolts rearwards.
This time you have a 500mm+ crowbar.
Most of the above data came from the testing we did with Paul’s car some years ago.
If you need any information please message me on here, there is a fitting guide to help select which option is best for you.
Supercharger of Doom
Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:20 PM
I'd certainly be interested in either getting an updated version that works with the original kit as pictured above and my exhaust. Though it may actually make sense to get the whatever the latest complete kit (toe links and brace bar) is, given I've also got a set of the later tapered uprights sat somewhere in the garage.
Billy No Mates
Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:25 PM
Need to get Out More
Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:34 PM
I'd certainly be interested in either getting an updated version that works with the original kit as pictured above and my exhaust. Though it may actually make sense to get the whatever the latest complete kit (toe links and brace bar) is, given I've also got a set of the later tapered uprights sat somewhere in the garage.
OK I will send you the fitting brief.
normal e-mail?
Supercharger of Doom
Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:38 PM
normal e-mail?
Fine by me; xxxxx@outlook.com
Need to get Out More
Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:55 PM
normal e-mail?
Fine by me; xxxxx@outlook.com
On the way
Supercharger of Doom
Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:07 PM
On the way
Received, thank you!
Need to get Out More
Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:21 AM
Briefly, the bracket mount design. This is the most rearward of the options
[attachment=25608:IMG_6175.jpg]
And the new spigot mount, this covers the gap between the original brace and the rear mounted system.
[attachment=25606:IMG_6206.jpg]
For full fitting options please mail me on here.
Gaz
Edited by Spitfire Engineering, 30 July 2014 - 01:28 AM.
RaceMode
Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:34 AM
putting a lot of faith in the subframe material , isn't there a risk of making the bolt hole oval ?
WANNABE MY LOVER
Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:55 AM
Does the latest lotus subframe not have a bar welded in along the bottom of the two tower parts? Kind of like a welded in brace bar (hope that makes sense). The one I saw was part of the subframe and was about 2" wide by 1" high and made up of a folded sheet spot welded in.
Summat like this:
I'm not trying to rubbish the top work by spitfire (and it is top work!!) I'm trying to assess the need for the movement in some directions
Need to get Out More
Posted 30 July 2014 - 06:09 PM
putting a lot of faith in the subframe material , isn't there a risk of making the bolt hole oval ?
I assume you mean on the spigot fitting?
No, the opposite, you have effectively halved the force acting on the internal surface of the hole itself by the brace which will receive about half of the applied force from the toe link rod, the actual split will be determined by the distances from the three points of force application.
All you have really done is to replace the double shear support on the outer end of the bolt from a bracket to a brace.
The above is only true if you assume the brace itself cannot assert any forces except a reactionary one.
If you solid mount the brace of course that will change things totally as when the subframe flexes you can now have the brace acting as a lever on the spigot.
Hence the bearing mount.
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