73 replies to this topic

[Graeme Lambert]

Ok,

So the big surprise is, that this is not for me, but Naomi

 

On Monday 22nd of December 2014 she was visiting a friend in Coventry and drove home, and all was normal - no problems or anything.

 

Yesterday she arrived home to find a letter from Thames Valley police, with a NIP, alleging that on said day she failed to report an accident, failed to stop at the scene of an accident and was driving without due care an attention. It of course lists her car, and correct registration number and scene of alleged incident as between jct 13 and 14 of the M1 southbound - at a time when yes she was likely to be there.

 

She assures me that she wasn't aware of any incident and didn't make contact with any other vehicle. As it's a main motorway, I would have thought that had she made contact with anything else, there would be some hefty damage. Apart from the usual parking scrapes that have been there for months, if not years, on her car there is of course no damage to the vehicle.

 

She, a little like me, of course feels sick about it and is worrying constantly. I don't think she really slept at all last night...

 

I've told her not to worry; she is/was not aware of any incident, and there is no damage to her vehicle, so she should have a clear conscience. Much though I'm saying it though, I'm still worried for her.

 

If it didn't have correct location, time and csr details I'd think it was a scam or ringer vehicle. One thing I don't get is that if it was a 'fast' accident (say at approx 70mph) even if they had to 'swerve' to avoid her i she pulled out into their lane or something is just how they would manage to get her correct registration and car details. I'm pretty sure I'd struggle to deal with an incident of that nature and collect those details reliably. Makes me wonder if this was some low-speed incident instead, like a clipped bumper at low speed during a tailback or something similar?

 

I have joined pepipoo and will go through the NIP wizard etc with her tonight, and I guess I should try and speak to a motoring offences lawyer and find out what the deal is - does anyone know if any of these guys offer any free advice at first (I suspect not, as they're lawyers).

 

Has anyone had similar (most of the examples I have found on the Internet relate to car park scuffs, not major motorway incidents), or any experience in dealing with something like this. Can anyone recommend a lawyer to talk to.

 

I really want to make sure we do everything possible to prove that the alleged charges are incorrect, or at least that she wasn't aware of any incident and couldn't have been, so any useful advice etc would be welcomed.

 

Hopefully someone can help, or offer advice?

 

G

[CocoPops]

I guess cctv of the alleged incident will be available? Certainly should prove one way or another.

[FLD]

sh*t the bed, thats terrible!

Can you not ask for details of the accident / evidence to prove fault.  I believe you have to pay for it but it might show up a cloned car or something else.  Fingers crossed for you

 

[techieboy]

Have you got AA membership or similar? They usually have legal helplines that may get you started. Likewise insurance might have the same although that's probably not the first place you want to start.

[CocoPops]

When was the NIP issued? 22nd Dec until now is a long time, even with Christmas in the middle.

[Graeme Lambert]

I guess cctv of the alleged incident will be available? Certainly should prove one way or another.

 

Not sure? Do they have CCTV accross the whole motorway network?

 

The fact they have the full details of the car does suggest that maybe they do?

 

 

sh*t the bed, thats terrible!

Can you not ask for details of the accident / evidence to prove fault.  I believe you have to pay for it but it might show up a cloned car or something else.  Fingers crossed for you

 

 

Yeah it's not a good feeling mate. She's pretty much in bits, and I'm trying to put a brave face on for her to stop her worrying quite so much.

 

I just think the coincidence would be too great for it to be cloned car - she was where the alledged incident happened at that time in that car, so I'm guessing not.

 

Have you got AA membership or similar? They usually have legal helplines that may get you started. Likewise insurance might have the same although that's probably not the first place you want to start.

 

Good shout Matt. I think we still have RAC though not 100% sure. Will double check.

 

When was the NIP issued? 22nd Dec until now is a long time, even with Christmas in the middle.

 

Well from my research, in theory a NIP has to be issued within 14 days - unless there was an accident. I think, as I don't have the doc in front of me, that it was issued only a few days ago. Probably 25-30 days after alledged incident.

[slindborg]

didnt Jimmy get clipped on a motorway? (sorry not helpful, or it might be as hes the otherway round in that he knew what happened and the other person buggered off)

[The Knobs]

Surely they must have some reason to send it and as she was there at that time then a ringer is very unlikely.

[Graeme Lambert]

didnt Jimmy get clipped on a motorway? (sorry not helpful, or it might be as hes the otherway round in that he knew what happened and the other person buggered off)

 

Yup, he did. Think he chased him.

 

Don't know if JJJ pursued it and reported it to the police though.

 

G

[The Knobs]

also lots of lorries have cameras on so maybe somebody showed police an incident, hence the delay

[Graeme Lambert]

Surely they must have some reason to send it and as she was there at that time then a ringer is very unlikely.

 

Much though I don't want to I have to agree - too many details correct for it to be a scam or ringer/cloned car etc.

[FLD]

It may be a mistake.  They could have read the number from the wrong car.

[rob999]

Sorry to hear G, first move would be to request the evidence they have. Whether it's a dashcam or roadside CCTV etc....

[Graeme Lambert]

Sorry to hear G, first move would be to request the evidence they have. Whether it's a dashcam or roadside CCTV etc....

 

I thought that was frowned upon in these circumstances Rob?

[Sutol]

i'm just listening to Radio4 (yes I know), subject =CCTV. Some guy phoned and said his boss had contacted him and told him that he'd been spotted on CCTV and reported for DWDC. It was one of the motorway cameras that spotted him. It was on about 12.35pm if you want to iplayer it.

[haggi961]

You have 14 days to receive paperwork claiming you have committed a crime. I'm going to court soon with the same problem with receiving a late NIP. Dear Officer ******, CVVVVVVVV - Notice of Intended Prosecution I received your letter dated *********, the references for which are detailed above. I have enclosed a copy of the Notice sent to me recently, for ease of cross-reference. You have written to me because I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your Notice. My address is correct as per the details at DVLC, and the vehicle was not a Company car, and was neither hired nor borrowed. No Officer spoke to me at the time of the alleged offence, and no accident took place. Also, no Police person has spoken with me at or near the time and place detailed in your Notice. The written Notice is the first indication from you of any intention to prosecute. Your Notice details the alleged offence as VV:VVhrs on *********. The Notice is dated ********, and it came to me by post, received on ********. Excluding the day of the alleged offence, this was **th day from the date detailed in your Notice. Following discussions with the RAC Legal Helpline, please note that the Notice cannot be acted upon as it is time-expired. For this Notice to have been valid, it ought to have been with me within 14 days of the alleged offence [Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside [2009] EWHC 2924 (Admin)]. It was suggested I write back to you immediately with these comments. Yours sincerely VVVVVVVVV Registered Keeper

[Graeme Lambert]

You have 14 days to receive paperwork claiming you have committed a crime. I'm going to court soon with the same problem with receiving a late NIP. Dear Officer ******, CVVVVVVVV - Notice of Intended Prosecution I received your letter dated *********, the references for which are detailed above. I have enclosed a copy of the Notice sent to me recently, for ease of cross-reference. You have written to me because I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle mentioned in your Notice. My address is correct as per the details at DVLC, and the vehicle was not a Company car, and was neither hired nor borrowed. No Officer spoke to me at the time of the alleged offence, and no accident took place. Also, no Police person has spoken with me at or near the time and place detailed in your Notice. The written Notice is the first indication from you of any intention to prosecute. Your Notice details the alleged offence as VV:VVhrs on *********. The Notice is dated ********, and it came to me by post, received on ********. Excluding the day of the alleged offence, this was **th day from the date detailed in your Notice. Following discussions with the RAC Legal Helpline, please note that the Notice cannot be acted upon as it is time-expired. For this Notice to have been valid, it ought to have been with me within 14 days of the alleged offence [Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside [2009] EWHC 2924 (Admin)]. It was suggested I write back to you immediately with these comments. Yours sincerely VVVVVVVVV Registered Keeper

 

This was your level crossing issue right Luke?

 

Have you heard back since you have written this letter. As far as I'm aware, though very happy to be corrected, that the 14-day rule doesn't apply in the case of an accident. Obviously we're suggesting there wasn't an accident - certainly Naomi and her car were not directly involved in any accident.

 

Though frankly from my point of view I'd sugest if there was an accident then I'd expect the notification to be even quicker as this should have been reported within 24hrs.

 

G

 

[Graeme Lambert]

i'm just listening to Radio4 (yes I know), subject =CCTV. Some guy phoned and said his boss had contacted him and told him that he'd been spotted on CCTV and reported for DWDC. It was one of the motorway cameras that spotted him. It was on about 12.35pm if you want to iplayer it.

 

Thanks Chris will give that a listen when it becomes available on iPlayer.

 

G

[Mangham54]

Or maybe it is a scam, someone has basically spotted the car and taken down the details.

 

Not sure whether the best advice is to respond to the NIP and ask for more details as Naomi was unaware of anything happening.

 

[Graeme Lambert]

Or maybe it is a scam, someone has basically spotted the car and taken down the details.

 

Not sure whether the best advice is to respond to the NIP and ask for more details as Naomi was unaware of anything happening.

 

 

I just don't understand why they would though Chris? And if it goes to court or whatever what would they get out of it.

 

The only logical reason I can come up with, and even then it's a bit of a stretch, is that somehow she cut someone up and they ended up off the road with damage to their car. As it may have happened behind her, then she might not have noticed? Who knows. That said, she's always incredibly cautious when changing lanes, more so than I am probably.

 

Still surprised they'd get all the details they did though, unless there is a dashcam or other video/picture evidence?

 

Up until this morning I'd decided to send the NIP back today and for her to call and request details. A quick look on pepipoo earlier suggested that might not be the best course of action.