24 replies to this topic

[FLD]

I have a vague awareness of this and I'm a wee bit curious. Those who know me would know my driving style is slow and cautious so there's no likelihood of me using it but I'm curious as to why this is needed and what benefit it has. Anyone care to educate me?

[ukcat]

Match engine speed to gearbox on downshifts

[Pidgeon]

Most critical function is to avoid locking the rears on downshifts (avoids placing the load of raising engine revs to match transmission speed on the rears).  Not so critical in MRE cars (I can't do it in the VX), very critical in front engined vehicles.

[Bargi]

It's great fun once you can do it though

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

less wear on the clutch?

 

 

[SteveA]

All cars can benefit though regardless of layout as generally not h&t ing will over brake the car and will slow you down over a lap. You can get away without doing it in the dry in my car but in the wet it is almost essential. It's dead easy to do in a 7 though as the pedals are so close together.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

I cant rotate my leg in the VX (and being a sh*t driver) so I just use the side of my foot

[james_ly]

It allows you to brake later without unstabilizing the car. If you are braking at 100% on the rear wheels, if you change down without matching the revs it slows the wheels down past the limit of friction (as the brakes are holding them at 100% best case). This means you lock up the back wheels.

 

Plus a rev matched gearchange is faster so you have more time with 2 hands on wheel when braking. Plus it sounds cool

[Mattyboi]

I cant rotate my leg in the VX (and being a sh*t driver) so I just use the side of my foot

 

I doubt many people actually use their heel and toe, you'd need a floor mounted pedal or an extended pedal. I use something more along the lines of "three toe, two toe and some of the foot". Its not as snappy sounding though.

Edited by Mattyboi, 24 September 2015 - 02:03 PM.

[FLD]

Ah! Makes perfect sense. I did find I was quite jerky on down shift at Anglesey many moons ago. Not sure I'll be doing it though as I've much more to learn about like braking etc. Thanks for the great explanation though. If anyone fancies giving me some pointers on Saturday I'd really appreciate it!

[KurtVerbose]

Plus a rev matched gearchange is faster so you have more time with 2 hands on wheel when braking. Plus it sounds cool

 

From the master himself: -

 

[SteveA]

Ah! Makes perfect sense. I did find I was quite jerky on down shift at Anglesey many moons ago. Not sure I'll be doing it though as I've much more to learn about like braking etc. Thanks for the great explanation though. If anyone fancies giving me some pointers on Saturday I'd really appreciate it!

 

I'm good at it and the effect is more noticable in my car, just come and find me.  

[FLD]

Will do. I'd be grateful of any pointers.

[Goodie]

I'd love to be able to do it properly, but with size 13 feet, it can get a bit tricky lol. I do however try to blip on the downshifts during lively driving.

[gaffer1986]

Heel and toe is tricky to get right because you can either: brake too hard when trying to press the gas or give too many revs which will jolt the engine. Get it right and you can literally drop the clutch after a downshift which allows you to get on the power again earlier.

 

Pointers:

I learnt it by doing it at low speeds on the public road when no one is following me just to get a comfortable foot position, depending on the pedal layout it can either be my heel or side of my foot I use for the gas. Although at low speeds it's very hard to get the correct amount of gas and easy to over rev so still bring clutch up carefully. When I was more comfortable with foot position and wasn't stamping on the brake when trying to press the gas I did it at higher speeds, easier to get revs right and then at max speed on the track, easier still to get revs correct as it's hard to over rev when you are near max revs

 

I find left foot braking is also very helpful when a corner doesn't require a downshift as you can get on the brakes later which actually makes a surprising difference. Also gentle left foot braking is good for instant speed corrections mid corner, my left foot is always hovering over the brake pedal on long sweeping bends when at the limit of traction. Be warned though, most people stamp on the brakes the first time they try with their left foot as they're used to pressing the clutch with this foot, start gradually with no one behind and build yourself up.

 

I've been using heel and toe for around 10 years now and left foot braking for the last year and they're pretty automatic now, heel and toe is one of the best bits about a manual and one of the reasons I am sticking to manuals at the moment even though the dual clutch systems are so good. They're just not as fun in my opinion.

Edited by gaffer1986, 24 September 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[gaffer1986]

Another pointer, I find it far better when I blip the throttle before selecting the lower gear instead after selecting it. The gears just seem to go in easier when the revs are match to wheels.

[Captain Vimes]

I can do it on road but find it distracting on track plus I haven't ever had a problem with locking the rear wheels on the vx. My old m3 was a different matter entirely!

[Samwise]

I've been gradually practicing it over time. I find it far easier in the VX to cover both pedals with my wide (fat) foot and blip the throttle by tilting my foot over.

As said its at least a bit of fun and quite satisfying when done well

[KrazyHazy]

Using the side of your feet is much easier if you have larger feet, due to the size of the peddle box. I found wearing skate shoes can help as they have a firmer edge of your feet are narrower, plus the break pedal travel may not be far enough for the blip you need for big downshifts. If you have child like feet though, you can proper heel toe, even if you wear Havanas.... Which are a kind of sandal, and not cigars in this case. Give it a go though, it's very satisfying if you can do it seamlessly.

[james_ly]

I've got quite narrow feet, so I put the ball of my foot on the brake, then twist and jab the throttle with the side/heel. I can only do it when braking hard as the VX brakes are overservoed, so it's much easier on track.