109 replies to this topic

[Spitfire Engineering]

 

 

I still have issues with this new unit in an OEM tank at that Zandvoort left hander. Running about 350 SC horsies @3.0 bar rail pressure. Hoped the bigger canister would solve this...

  Hi You have a different unit to the one discussed above as we moved over to another design a couple of years ago but if you U2U me I will see what we can do to help.  

I'm pretty sure I have your latest pump unit with bigger canister and no more educter pump.... (not the older unit with modified pump)

 

 

Yes it does have a larger canister and it does have a dual input pump not an eductor but it is an earlier unit from another manufacturer with different spec, both output and recharge capability.

 

If you U2U me with the indications I will try to help.

 

[Spitfire Engineering]

im not on a 255 pump anymore im on a GST450-K 

will be honest i never even thought about current of the pump or anything else apart from getting enough fuel to the injectors 

ive just looked at the spec sheet of this pump and it should be running  high current but after speaking to one of your customers about one of yours i put a 15 amp fuse in the pump last year and its never fused 

 

and yes i can see the advantage of the bigger plugs especially if you say there is a known issue with the oem ones going by the pic you posted 

 

im running less boost than most, but not dramatically less 

 

i think we need to keep the fuel around the pick up point 

 

OK well that explains the difference in current draw you mentioned.

What I don't understand is the pump you have fitted now is even more extreme, this draws 16A at 50psi, I think you really need to be careful, I don't want to come across as a doom-monger but it would be remiss of me if I didn't inform you of the risk.

 

The reason the fuse has not blown is that you are asking too much of the vehicle wiring, I would guess that you only have about 11.5 -12.5V at the pump with it running and not 13.5V

 

You do not need anything like the output from this pump so most is just going around heating the fuel and blasting a jet through the eductor which is why it is not working

 

Gaz

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

 

im not on a 255 pump anymore im on a GST450-K 

will be honest i never even thought about current of the pump or anything else apart from getting enough fuel to the injectors 

ive just looked at the spec sheet of this pump and it should be running  high current but after speaking to one of your customers about one of yours i put a 15 amp fuse in the pump last year and its never fused 

 

and yes i can see the advantage of the bigger plugs especially if you say there is a known issue with the oem ones going by the pic you posted 

 

im running less boost than most, but not dramatically less 

 

i think we need to keep the fuel around the pick up point 

 

OK well that explains the difference in current draw you mentioned.

What I don't understand is the pump you have fitted now is even more extreme, this draws 16A at 50psi, I think you really need to be careful, I don't want to come across as a doom-monger but it would be remiss of me if I didn't inform you of the risk.

 

The reason the fuse has not blown is that you are asking too much of the vehicle wiring, I would guess that you only have about 11.5 -12.5V at the pump with it running and not 13.5V

 

You do not need anything like the output from this pump so most is just going around heating the fuel and blasting a jet through the eductor which is why it is not working

 

 

 

it works everywhere apart from one corner at zandvoort but only starves when im below 11-12 litres of fuel in the tank on this corner

the corner is a fast long left hander which continually goes slightly left up hill for some time 

this is also the corner a lot of others have issue with 

 

i think this is more to with lack of fuel at the pick up rather than anything no matter how good the product is, if its not in fuel its not going to work 

same corner as exmanta speaks off 

also turbo cars suffer when they get low on fuel there 

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 01 February 2017 - 08:57 PM.

[ArticMonkey]

 
Well my pump has lasted another year which is good! Am still really interested on real life feedback on these pumps especially regarding the larger canister and claims of improvement to the fuel starvation.
 
Any feedback would be great from people who have bought and tested on track.
 
Sam
 

 
I'm sure someone will be along Sam ... or just ask one of the aftermarket dealers as they fit the most.
 
The larger canister is only part of the story the refill time is more important as the OE unit takes about 10 seconds minimum, at high power much longer as there is less return  fuel to power the educator pump.
We have sold 180+ to the Elise and VX markets, most go directly to dealers.
 
Only 1 car still has an issue with LH corners, (it had an issue before) this is a VX and had a problem at Anglesey on the double left. That car is coming into Jon Seal's soon for some engine work so I will take the opportunity to see what the issue is if any. We did ask the owner to do some power circles to isolate the issue but we have not heard back to date.
This unit cannot make fuel! if the canister is full before the corner and it runs out before the end of the corner due to consumption then you need a trapped tank so you have more fuel in reserve.
 
Take a look here for the full pump spec and operation.
http://www.spitfiree...-s2-fuel-pumps/
 
 

Gaz

We spoke last year about my pump issues. I've since bought a PA tank and will be contacting you nearer the time of fitting to get mine upgraded.

[Spitfire Engineering]

 

 

im not on a 255 pump anymore im on a GST450-K 

will be honest i never even thought about current of the pump or anything else apart from getting enough fuel to the injectors 

ive just looked at the spec sheet of this pump and it should be running  high current but after speaking to one of your customers about one of yours i put a 15 amp fuse in the pump last year and its never fused 

 

and yes i can see the advantage of the bigger plugs especially if you say there is a known issue with the oem ones going by the pic you posted 

 

im running less boost than most, but not dramatically less 

 

i think we need to keep the fuel around the pick up point 

 

OK well that explains the difference in current draw you mentioned.

What I don't understand is the pump you have fitted now is even more extreme, this draws 16A at 50psi, I think you really need to be careful, I don't want to come across as a doom-monger but it would be remiss of me if I didn't inform you of the risk.

 

The reason the fuse has not blown is that you are asking too much of the vehicle wiring, I would guess that you only have about 11.5 -12.5V at the pump with it running and not 13.5V

 

You do not need anything like the output from this pump so most is just going around heating the fuel and blasting a jet through the eductor which is why it is not working

 

 

 

it works everywhere apart from one corner at zandvoort but only starves when im below 11-12 litres of fuel in the tank on this corner

the corner is a fast long left hander which continually goes slightly left up hill for some time 

this is also the corner a lot of others have issue with 

 

i think this is more to with lack of fuel at the pick up rather than anything no matter how good the product is, if its not in fuel its not going to work 

same corner as exmanta speaks off 

also turbo cars suffer when they get low on fuel there 

 

 

That's really interesting and explains a lot.

Looking at videos from Zandvoort it seems to be about an 16-20 second left turn before the car goes back through neutral G almost at the top of the hill is that correct?

 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

The left handed just after 6 mins 30 seconds in this video I'm the car in front of the camera car

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 02 February 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Exmantaa]

Yup, a long left hander, followed by a full throttle sweeping straight up hill...

When I get my starvation, it always occurs somewhere on 2/3rd of that straight part. Where you had the issue too @ 6:45.

[Spitfire Engineering]

Yep got it. Thanks.

OK  looking at the steering wheel left lock is applied at 6:34 and is kept left of nuetral until you slow down for the car ahead at 6:49, most of that time you are at full or high power.

Had you not been blocked you would have kept left lock for another 5 seconds or so before the next right.

 

300bhp NA is about 1.5 lt/min with an efficient setup (bsfc .5)

300bhp Sc is about 2.1 lt/min (bsfc .60)

 

The capacity of the OE unit at 1G (45 degree tilt of the fuel inside) is 240cc so you can expect about 9.5 and 6.8 seconds respectively for NA/SC

The capacity of the new units at 1G (45 degree tilt of the fuel inside) is 280cc so you can expect about 11.2 and 8.0 seconds respectively for NA/SC

 

The video would suggest a minimum of 16 seconds though you need to adjust for actual BHP +/- (not exactly 300bhp as above) and max throttle time as this will not be 100% probably closer to 80-90%

 

I have little doubt that the canister is full at the start of the left turn for two reasons, first, the preceding right is quite tight, even without the recharge system at 1G lateral the fuel would flow over the top of the pump unit (either) and fill it instantaniously. Secondly, based on the above calcs you would not get the times before stall you are seeing as they are very close to the expected times available for the fuel available.

 

Clearly no pump unit can solve this issue as it is nothing to do with the pump or the unit but simply lack of available fuel.

The only solution is a trapping of some sort.

 

For this particular corner you might find you can solve the problem by reversing the G for a couple of seconds.

As you come out of the first left and proceed uptake hill, at time 6:31 continue turning left off of the race line and move over to the left side of the track, then switch G and gently turn right (.3G) until you are back on the racing line. 5 seconds will fill the new units, with the OE it will take quite a bit longer as you have to un-stall the eductor first.

 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

thanks for the input Gaz, 

do you anything in the pipeline which would help the fuel entrapment as mentioned above its only this one corner that i have ever had a issue, 

have you had any experience with this type of hydramat ?? discussed here 

 

http://www.vx220.org...arvation-issue/

 

the car at the point of the issue was in the region of 350hp and is now producing a little more, i am now running water injection (100% water for IAT reduction )(works very very well)

 

the car is closer to 400 hp crank power nowadays 

so would like to see if you have any ideas which will help solve the issue other than keeping the fuel tank abovw 11 litres of fuel 

[Spitfire Engineering]

The answer is on the other thread