34 replies to this topic

[Alastair]

I haven't had a full update from the garage.. but suspect I have got away with the rear only.

[haggi961]

It is usually good practice to keep flexi's as short as possible, brake pipes should be solid until they reach the area of movement. I have just changed all my brake pipes and flexi's, it was a awful job to do but hopefully I'll never have to do it again

Braided lines don't expand that much and see lots of rally cars and race cars run full length flexi lines with no problems. The run is only 3 meters I'm fitting them to mine and don't see the problem at all.

Mine are all braided and no problems at all, if anything the pedal feels better.

[NOSBandit]

All flexible brake lines including braided expand under pressure, solid lines do not hence why the flexible line are kept to the areas of movement. If your brakes improved after fitting a long length of flexible hose it was probably because your brake fluid was shot and due for a change.

[haggi961]

Brake fluid wasn't shot as it was replaced along with seals and pads and 4 pot calipers on the front, so i know it was new. Any time that an object is subjected to internal pressure, it expands. The amount of expansion will be proportional to the amount of pressure present and the rigidity of the holding structure. In the case of brake hoses, we are subjecting Teflon to internal pressures as high as 3000PSI. Because the Teflon is relatively flexible (which makes it ideal for the job in one regard), it will expand under these conditions. This expansion creates additional fluid volume in the hydraulic circuit which is felt by the driver as a soft or mushy pedal. Rubber overmolding does little to reduce expansion under pressure, as rubber is also a relatively flexible material. A woven braid of Stainless Steel, however, can greatly increase the rigidity of the hose under pressure while still allowing adequate flexibility for wheel end movement. In many cases, this reduced expansion can be felt by the driver as a firmer or more responsive brake pedal. In addition, the reduced compliance will result in a faster transient response of the brake system. In other words, the time from the driver hitting the brake pedal until deceleration is generated will be decreased by a small amount. The benefit will vary based on each individual application, but in general overall deceleration can be attained more quickly, resulting in slightly shorter stopping distances.

[techieboy]

 

Hmmmm, braided brake line manufacturer in overblown marketing spiel shocker. 

 

That's just referring to flexi sections. I can't see how introducing a flexible line in place of a solid line is ever going to outperform the solid line (assuming it's in good condition), other than from an ease of install point of view.

[stu8v]

I've run both hard/flexi and completely flexi. No discernable difference noticed. You take your pick. Obviously flexi will have some give in it but is it noticed? Well not by me. 👍 Hard lines are way cheaper too. Never been overly keen on copper though. Always gone cunifer 😊

[zimmer]

The main issue here is safety - there's not a satisfactory way to clip the hard lines in the sill, so they might be at risk from vibration fatigue and fracture. Braided lines won't have this problem

[haggi961]

The main issue here is safety - there's not a satisfactory way to clip the hard lines in the sill, so they might be at risk from vibration fatigue and fracture. Braided lines won't have this problem

With mine I also fitted a fire protection sleeve to all the braided lines to make sure there's no worries of the coolant pipes burning the braided sleeve.

[robin]

im sorting a group buy on stainless steel braided lines to replace the section of pipe that sits in the sills

if anyones intrested then have a look in group buy section.

 

thanks Robin

[909]

Brake fluid wasn't shot as it was replaced along with seals and pads and 4 pot calipers on the front, so i know it was new.

Any time that an object is subjected to internal pressure, it expands. The amount of expansion will be proportional to the amount of pressure present and the rigidity of the holding structure. In the case of brake hoses, we are subjecting Teflon to internal pressures as high as 3000PSI. Because the Teflon is relatively flexible (which makes it ideal for the job in one regard), it will expand under these conditions. This expansion creates additional fluid volume in the hydraulic circuit which is felt by the driver as a soft or mushy pedal.
Rubber overmolding does little to reduce expansion under pressure, as rubber is also a relatively flexible material. A woven braid of Stainless Steel, however, can greatly increase the rigidity of the hose under pressure while still allowing adequate flexibility for wheel end movement. In many cases, this reduced expansion can be felt by the driver as a firmer or more responsive brake pedal.
In addition, the reduced compliance will result in a faster transient response of the brake system. In other words, the time from the driver hitting the brake pedal until deceleration is generated will be decreased by a small amount. The benefit will vary based on each individual application, but in general overall deceleration can be attained more quickly, resulting in slightly shorter stopping distances.

 

Obviously copied from marketing hype.

 

While there is nothing wrong with correctly specified braided brake hose, it also does not offer the advantages over OEM rubber brake hose, claimed by most sellers, in a road or race car.

 

Rubber over-molding is not what holds the pressure.  It is to provide abrasion protection.  Cut open an OEM rubber brake line and you will see the actual braid that does.  A lot of modern fibre material, actually, has a greater tensile strength than steel.  2000 PSI is a more correct maximum pressure as seen in brake lines.

 

Braided brake line is used in many race cars as the only brake line pipe used, but a correctly specified, solid line properly secured, will offer a more solid pedal feel.  A softer pedal may be preferred however.

[chickendippers]

Can get the kits for this from HEL, 25% off RRP for .org members

[Vx220Nurburgring]

Are they still available?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Ivor]

Think someone was selling these in the parts listings

[Denny.G]

 

Brake fluid wasn't shot as it was replaced along with seals and pads and 4 pot calipers on the front, so i know it was new.

Any time that an object is subjected to internal pressure, it expands. The amount of expansion will be proportional to the amount of pressure present and the rigidity of the holding structure. In the case of brake hoses, we are subjecting Teflon to internal pressures as high as 3000PSI. Because the Teflon is relatively flexible (which makes it ideal for the job in one regard), it will expand under these conditions. This expansion creates additional fluid volume in the hydraulic circuit which is felt by the driver as a soft or mushy pedal.
Rubber overmolding does little to reduce expansion under pressure, as rubber is also a relatively flexible material. A woven braid of Stainless Steel, however, can greatly increase the rigidity of the hose under pressure while still allowing adequate flexibility for wheel end movement. In many cases, this reduced expansion can be felt by the driver as a firmer or more responsive brake pedal.
In addition, the reduced compliance will result in a faster transient response of the brake system. In other words, the time from the driver hitting the brake pedal until deceleration is generated will be decreased by a small amount. The benefit will vary based on each individual application, but in general overall deceleration can be attained more quickly, resulting in slightly shorter stopping distances.

 

Obviously copied from marketing hype.

 

While there is nothing wrong with correctly specified braided brake hose, it also does not offer the advantages over OEM rubber brake hose, claimed by most sellers, in a road or race car.

 

Rubber over-molding is not what holds the pressure.  It is to provide abrasion protection.  Cut open an OEM rubber brake line and you will see the actual braid that does.  A lot of modern fibre material, actually, has a greater tensile strength than steel.  2000 PSI is a more correct maximum pressure as seen in brake lines.

 

Braided brake line is used in many race cars as the only brake line pipe used, but a correctly specified, solid line properly secured, will offer a more solid pedal feel.  A softer pedal may be preferred however.

 

Yes, but you must know if you follow this forum that haggi is never wrong.

[Wolfstone]

Yes, but you must know if you follow this forum that haggi is never wrong.

Tragically Haggi (Luke Richardson) passed away just under two weeks ago as a result of a car accident.