35 replies to this topic

[gaffer1986]

I guess it's a combination of the two but which is more damaging to suspension components, age or miles?

 

 

I'm currently looking for a Silver VX220 NA (given up on unicorn ITBs) with refreshed suspension as these cars are old now and it will be better value buying one with the work already done than doing it myself.

 

I've just found a car on Piston Heads with 21K miles that looks very good but I'm thinking the suspension may still need a refresh.

[Bargi]

Good question. I reckon Johnnyboy would have the best knowledge of this as he's probably driven the most low milage cars of anyone Sent from my cuntyfuckbollock phone by Twatatalk

[The Batman]

Having worked on a vast amount of vxs from all mileages Rubber deteriorates over time, low mileage cannot stop that.

[mbes2]

20k miles hard tracking... 

1k Road miles  

 

 

Just replace all you need after you buy it 

[robin]

also lack of cleaining any of the suspension and ali tub and good acf50 after cleaining.

[jonnyboy]

A lot will depend on the use the cars had and where its been stored. Dampers might need sending off we had a low miler recently that was perfect apart from the rear dampers had completely seized open which made it interesting to drive to say the least. 

 

Tyres will be the first thing to look at they will go hard way before you have any issues with suspension bushes. 

 

Modern bushes dont dry out and deteriorate like your Dad's old Ford. Each cars day will come but I would say at the moment 90% of suspension refreshes are done as a tinkering project rather than because they need doing. You'd be surprised how with the throughput of cars we have we very very rarely have to change anything other than dampers on the suspension. I think I've had one balljoint gone in the last 3 years. No wishbone bushes at all. 

[gaffer1986]

Thanks for your input, that's very helpful I've had various cars that have had bush problems at around 10 years old so I was assuming it would be the case for these. But having said that my old 100,000 mile VX220 didn't have bush problems so maybe these cars are better with bushes than most.

Edited by gaffer1986, 12 June 2016 - 09:36 PM.

[The Batman]

I disagree tbh having driven one before and after the bushes where replaced with new standard ones it transformed the car It didn't have any of the tell tell signs of a dying bush But that's all in my opinion

[gaffer1986]

I disagree tbh having driven one before and after the bushes where replaced with new standard ones it transformed the car It didn't have any of the tell tell signs of a dying bush But that's all in my opinion

Cool, if I'm honest I haven't compared, the only VX220 I've driven is my old one. Sold the Z4M today

[The Batman]

As you're collecting parts your old exhaust system is here Good news in the sale btw

Edited by The Batman, 12 June 2016 - 09:51 PM.

[gaffer1986]

Haha, what makes you think I'm collecting parts

[The Batman]

I see all

[gaffer1986]

Haha, I've only bought a steering wheel. Thought I'd see what I could do to it.

[gaffer1986]

https://flic.kr/p/HFeM5b Got me one of these.

Edited by gaffer1986, 12 June 2016 - 10:04 PM.

[Nev]

20k miles hard tracking... 

1k Road miles  

 

 

To be honest, I'd guess the opposite of that would be true, with fair reasons:

 

If you think about it, most tracks have pretty smooth tarmac, so the only bumps/shock loading the car takes is when (and if) you go over rumble strips on the side of the track (which might be 5% of the length of the track).

 

However, on the sorts of B-roads some of us drive on, every single metre can be on poor tarmac (ie as high as 50%), loads of pot holes and sometimes broken tarmac on the side of the road, man holes, poor tarmac seam joins on the centre line etc etc. Seeing as this bad surface is constantly causing the suspension to bounce around, I'd say it hammers the bushes and joints a lot more than smooth track tarmac.

 

Garaging a car is obviously well known to help reduce the ageing process on a car and I think would have a positive effect on the rubber's life. Mainly because it stops the extreme hot & cold getting to the car and perishing the rubbers. Also, not having direct sunlight on paintwork and tyre sidewalls helps a lot. Finally of course it isn't subject to rain water and/or frost.

 

In my case, my car has been garaged for the last 10 years. Yesterday (by chance) I did a test on a 3.5 year old wishbone with around 25,000 miles on it, that I had taken off the car a couple of weeks ago. I put the wishbone into a big vice and inserted a bar into the 2 bushes and twisted it to see how much movement there was. Both bushes were rock hard, even more so than I expected with absolutely no sign of play.

 

However, whist inspecting all my 13 year old ball joints over the last few months, I would say all of these have suffered badly and replacing each one has made a noticeable improvement of "tightness".

 

Hence, my advice on rates of wear and order of replacement is (approximately):

 

1. Inspect/replace hub carrier bolts (every year or two, or after any kerbing incident or very severe pot hole).

2. Inspect/replace (and check torque) rear tie rod joints (every year or two).

3. Replace upright ball joints, track rod ends (maybe (and very roughly) every 50,000 miles).

4. Refurb coilovers, perhaps every 50,000 miles if you drive on smooth roads, perhaps every 25,000 miles if you drive on bumpy stuff.

5. Replace bushes (rarely needed and only after inspection and testing in a vice).

 

Of course, the more often you do these inspections and refurbs, the better your car will drive. I recently had my Nitrons refurbed again after only 3.5 years and was shocked how much of an improvement it made. Next time I will be sending them back after maybe only 2 years as the performance improvement was that great.

 

This is just based on my own inspections and replacements on my garaged car however and no doubt will conflict with others experience, hence I'd only suggest the above list as a very rough guide. Ultimately, you will have you use your own judgement based on the roughness of surfaces you normally drive on, how much you value a sharp/accurate response from your car, your time + money budget, your desire to stay alive (in the case of tie bar joints, HCBs and track rod end joints).

 

HTH.

Edited by Nev, 13 June 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[james_ly]

Gaffer as you do track days won't you be upgrading the suspension anyway?

[gaffer1986]

20k miles hard tracking...  1k Road miles    

  To be honest, I'd guess the opposite of that would be true, with fair reasons:   If you think about it, most tracks have pretty smooth tarmac, so the only bumps/shock loading the car takes is when (and if) you go over rumble strips on the side of the track (which might be 5% of the length of the track).   However, on the sorts of B-roads some of us drive on, every single metre can be on poor tarmac (ie as high as 50%), loads of pot holes and sometimes broken tarmac on the side of the road, man holes, poor tarmac seam joins on the centre line etc etc. Seeing as this bad surface is constantly causing the suspension to bounce around, I'd say it hammers the bushes and joints a lot more than smooth track tarmac.   Garaging a car is obviously well known to help reduce the ageing process on a car and I think would have a positive effect on the rubber's life. Mainly because it stops the extreme hot & cold getting to the car and perishing the rubbers. Also, not having direct sunlight on paintwork and tyre sidewalls helps a lot. Finally of course it isn't subject to rain water and/or frost.   In my case, my car has been garaged for the last 10 years. Yesterday (by chance) I did a test on a 3.5 year old wishbone with around 25,000 miles on it, that I had taken off the car a couple of weeks ago. I put the wishbone into a big vice and inserted a bar into the 2 bushes and twisted it to see how much movement there was. Both bushes were rock hard, even more so than I expected with absolutely no sign of play.   However, whist inspecting all my 13 year old ball joints over the last few months, I would say all of these have suffered badly and replacing each one has made a noticeable improvement of "tightness".   Hence, my advice on rates of wear and order of replacement is (approximately):   1. Inspect/replace hub carrier bolts (every year or two, or after any kerbing incident or very severe pot hole). 2. Inspect/replace (and check torque) rear tie rod joints (every year or two). 3. Replace upright ball joints, track rod ends (maybe (and very roughly) every 50,000 miles). 4. Refurb coilovers, perhaps every 50,000 miles if you drive on smooth roads, perhaps every 25,000 miles if you drive on bumpy stuff. 5. Replace bushes (rarely needed and only after inspection and testing in a vice).   Of course, the more often you do these inspections and refurbs, the better your car will drive. I recently had my Nitrons refurbed again after only 3.5 years and was shocked how much of an improvement it made. Next time I will be sending them back after maybe only 2 years as the performance improvement was that great.   This is just based on my own inspections and replacements on my garaged car however and no doubt will conflict with others experience, hence I'd only suggest the above list as a very rough guide. Ultimately, you will have you use your own judgement based on the roughness of surfaces you normally drive on, how much you value a sharp/accurate response from your car, your time + money budget, your desire to stay alive (in the case of tie bar joints, HCBs and track rod end joints).   HTH.

That's very interesting thank you. Are track rod ends known to snap then? I notice you can get cheaper £15 track rod ends and more expensive £35 ones, do you think the cheaper ones are worse or are you just paying for the brand?

Edited by gaffer1986, 13 June 2016 - 08:28 AM.

[gaffer1986]

Gaffer as you do track days won't you be upgrading the suspension anyway?

No way, I definitely prefer oem suspension over more track orientated suspension due to smoothness on the road. Less than 5% of my miles are track miles as I use the car every weekend and some evenings and do a track day once a month. I always found the standard suspension rather good, although there is a definite improvement with Elise shocks and Team Dynamics 1.2 wheels. I would like some good tyres also.

[Nev]

 

Are track rod ends known to snap then?

 

 

I haven't heard of any snapping myself. However, if you were to kerb a front wheel I would seem sensible to spend 20 minutes to just extract the ball joint out of the steering arm and check the taper faces and also the threaded part for any bends or signs of fatigue.

 

They key thing here is that most of these components are just £20 each so cost is not the limiting factor, instead it's the lack of awareness/desire to do these checks that means most owners fail to keep these quite old cars in good shape for the inevitable bashing they take!

 

I myself changed my hub carrier bolts about 7 years ago, cleaned the threads, torqued them up correctly and also had a friend helping me to double check them. Only 1 year later one of them snapped on me during a pot hole crash. Thankfully I noticed about 1 mile down the road after it happened and slowed right down to get home and then inspected it. I was horrified, the consequences of the second one failing would have been dire. Since this, I have changed all HCB on several occasions (using higher tensile 12.9 steel and torqueing them up more), and probably inspected them many more times whilst changing camber shims.

 

Edited by Nev, 13 June 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[siztenboots]

lack of use does more damage , avoid a VX thats been laid up for a long time