25 replies to this topic

[Mat Jackson]

Ok - doing a bit of thinking out loud to decide what to do with the car next. Had an NA for 3 years, done a full suspension rebuild and the car is in great nick and is a hoot to drive. But, I do fancy a bit more power.... The brief is to make a great b-road blaster that is great fun and engaging to drive - it's not all about max hp... So what are my options... Tuning: From what I have seen I can get a 2.4 manifold, cams and light head work and see around 180-190 hp. Car will have similar characteristics as now, be engaging to drive, but be a bit quicker. No idea of cost though.... Itb: Great option for a B road blaster, with the noise and delivery adding to the engaging experience - but not cheap. Not even sure it is doable, as I don't think alpha do the software to support it any more. Anyone know for sure... Sc: Without a doubt, the biggest bang for buck hitting around 210hp for stage 1. As this is a non track car and will be aimed at B road fun, I am wary of staying away from stage 2 as too much power may take away from the engaging experience - I've had high power cars before and you seem to need to go faster to enjoy it.... There is a forth option, which is do nothing and enjoy it as it is.... On a recent blast with a mixture of Elise's I noticed there was very little difference between my NA, a 118hp s1 and a 190hp s2 in the real world..., So, let's start the debate..... Don't want to spend a fortune, and want an engaging B road rocket that is fun and engaging to drive... Your thoughts..... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bargi]

5th : Gearbox with final lower drive

[Mat Jackson]

5th : Gearbox with final lower drive

Good call.... May combine well with option 1 or 2 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pete-r]

My 2p... Tuning would be costly to get those sorts of numbers, unless you can do the labour yourself. ITB will very much change the character of the car. The OEM NA isn't revvy it will be different. SC stage 1, nothing wrong with it but I'd go stage 2 for little more. Apart from the noise the car feels like an NA with a 3l engine in it. Driving mine back to back with my mates chipped NA the feel is the same its just 'more'. Lower final drive from a Zafira or an M32 would be a good call too. Then lighten the unsprung mass as much as possible!

[smiley]

As a reference point cost wise.

[tibby]

Turbo kit Dbilas http://www.dbilas-sh...22SE::6958.html Buy ligth kit and use a 2.4 inlet/other injectors on it. I did this. Did got 270hp/370nm Be aware of NOT straigth fitting parts from them.....

[Paulus H]

Option one is a lot of fun. Changes the character of the engine. The benefits of the mods make their self felt mostly after 4,000 rpm so if is fun to be chasing the limiter.

 

Supercharging makes a lot of sense if you feel your car is too slow.

 

ITB is surely a very expensive way. But resulting in a very exciting drive.

 

Honda conversion is an expensive way to achieve the same power as option one, except of course you get a much higher rev limit.

 

I recently noticed I had not modded the engine in 4 years or so. I had not even noticed the transformation had stopped which suggests to me that I have found a sweet spot for my requirements. And don't get me wrong I a real enthusiast, I appreciate the car every time I get in.

 

And when are you going to make some more gaskets?

 

Paul

Edited by Paulus H, 23 August 2016 - 01:23 PM.

[slindborg]

two threads on exactly the same subject in different places... FFS are you gunning for the Gaffer189343732576359864578632876329842 prize?

[smiley]

There can be only 1 Gaffer

[vocky]

I recently noticed I had not modded the engine in 4 years or so. I had not even noticed the transformation had stopped which suggests to me that I have found a sweet spot for my requirements. And don't get me wrong I a real enthusiast, I appreciate the car every time I get in.

I have also found the sweet spot for my vx. 

 

I am very happy with the current engine and gearbox package, for a change

Edited by vocky, 23 August 2016 - 02:42 PM.

[Ian59]

Drive/keep it as it was intended......Standard      

[Captain Vimes]

Two factors will affect your decision 1- how much are you prepared to spend? 2- what characteristics do you want the car to have? NA tuning is more expensive and will move the torque curve up the rev range. It'll go well but you'll have to rev the bum off it to out drag a diesel Mondeo. NA tuning also only works well when everything works together ie. Cams, head, intake, exhaust, throttle body(ies), gearbox. So you need to spend a lot to see meaningful gains. A small investment won't make much difference. In contrast with an SC the head, cams exhaust can all remain standard and retains the low down torque but feels like a bigger capacity engine. It will still rev to 7k rpm but you don't need to change down to shake that transit off your tail. I've had turbo cars before and felt the need to get them on boost to enjoy them. The supercharger isn't like this and IMHO adds to the theatre and fun without dominating the experience. You need to get a ride in each. Anyone local?

[pete-r]

SC in Swansea here happy to help If you want a back to back with yours. Another consideration is cost of repair. If you break a tuned engine it's going to cost a fortune to redo, whereas the sc is bolt on and you could source a replacement engine cheap should the worst happen.

Edited by pete-r, 23 August 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Mat Jackson]

two threads on exactly the same subject in different places... FFS are you gunning for the Gaffer189343732576359864578632876329842 prize?

Sorry, my bad!!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mat Jackson]

SC in Swansea here happy to help If you want a back to back with yours. Another consideration is cost of repair. If you break a tuned engine it's going to cost a fortune to redo, whereas the sc is bolt on and you could source a replacement engine cheap should the worst happen.

Hi Pete - that would be great. Will have to meet up some time. Where in Swansea are you? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mat Jackson]

Option one is a lot of fun. Changes the character of the engine. The benefits of the mods make their self felt mostly after 4,000 rpm so if is fun to be chasing the limiter.   Supercharging makes a lot of sense if you feel your car is too slow.   ITB is surely a very expensive way. But resulting in a very exciting drive.   Honda conversion is an expensive way to achieve the same power as option one, except of course you get a much higher rev limit.   I recently noticed I had not modded the engine in 4 years or so. I had not even noticed the transformation had stopped which suggests to me that I have found a sweet spot for my requirements. And don't get me wrong I a real enthusiast, I appreciate the car every time I get in.   And when are you going to make some more gaskets?   Paul

Hi Paul, Going to be making some more next week. You never know, if I sell several thousand pairs it might find the upgrades!!! Mat Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pete-r]

Drop me a PM if you want to meet. I'm near town.

[Spitfire Engineering]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]There is a forth option, which is do nothing and enjoy it as it is.... On a recent blast with a mixture of Elise's I noticed there was very little difference between my NA, a 118hp s1 and a 190hp s2 in the real world...[/color]

 

 

​I think the answer lies within the concept of the word[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;] "Lard"  [/color]

[Mat Jackson]

As a reference point cost wise.

Can diy sc stage 1 really be done for £1k - seems a bit optimistic? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Exmantaa]

1000 is very optimistic.

Maybe using cheap 2nd hand SC parts from US & shipping, plus a cheap SC remap (non OBD), but then you still need some bespoke new conversion parts (and the St1 pulley) and a few other bits that you can source 2nd hand. 1500 is more realistic.

 

Personally I would not bother with a non chargecooled SC, as that will loose a lot of power when it gets hotter;

Stage 2 => cheap vertical big oil cooler up front, some hoses & clamps. A waterpump + relay and a small watertank is all you need extra...