41 replies to this topic

[Jimmy-Boy]

Hi all,

 

I currently have a fairly well track spec VX220... and i am really considering supercharging. But i just don't know if the extra noise, possible heat, and fuel surge etc is going to be worth it?

 

so far the VX has been pretty much bomb proof and apart from the odd kit car varient or M3 thats caged, on big brakes and slicks nothing has ever really come close. So do i need the extra 100bhp or is it just as well showing people up in my around 150hp car..

 

Currently the car is having a baffle sump fitted, new upright and mounts etc in hope to survive some full slicks i fancy trying. I also am thinking about a different gear box to keep in the little power band more...

 

This post goes out mainly to track day users because for anyone who has seen my car it is far from road legal but all comments and advice are welcome. Another food for thought is to maybe sell up and go M3 because these cars seem so capable 2min 12sec around snett with just brakes, coil overs and semi slicks it seems. Will my car once charged be able to match this I'm not so sure?

 

anyway like i said all comments welcome its just because i have been without the car since the national and has got me thinking once again! Please let me know and slap me round the head if you feel i need it!

 

Thanks James

Edited by Jimmy-Boy, 02 December 2016 - 02:40 PM.

[Nev]

Why not try and get a passenger lift with a local owner and see what it's like... easy to arrange, and you would get to genuinely experience the difference (as opposed to trying to imagine it).

 

I think once you've felt the extra 100 BHP you will plump for it. You already have a highly capable car (to no bugs), supercharging it using a known recipe, known price and known outcome seems a nice easy route to follow, with almost no risk other than a bit more oil consumption.

 

I can't believe an M3 would be any faster than a stage 2 SC'ed VX220 myself and the running costs will be way higher on an M3.

Edited by Nev, 02 December 2016 - 02:49 PM.

[techieboy]

So do i need the extra 100bhp or is it just as well showing people up in my around 150hp car.

 

I've never had as much fun with my VX since the days of it being 180bhp NA and working it really hard to claim the scalps of "quicker" cars on track. Having it SC'd (whilst it's great in that guise - though I wouldn't go past Stage 2 with hindsight) has just made me a lazier driver on track and I've now pretty much given up on trackdays and will be returning it to a more road friendly car in advance of flogging it next summer.

[PaulCP]

I've now pretty much given up on trackdays and will be returning it to a more road friendly car in advance of flogging it next summer.

Oh dear, that love/hate relationship on a downward turn again!

[james_ly]

Snetterton does have massive straights so an M3 is in its element there.

[pete-r]

I think it's a common question from most who SC the car. I did all the chassis work like you first then felt there was nothing left to do but the power plant. I was at Anglesey in 2015 in my mates S1 which broke down so I was able to use my other mates NA for some track time. It was brilliant! The car has a sweetness in NA form, and while it doesn't make the car worse in any area, the sc conversion definitely makes it a more serious proposition. I mean this as a compliment but I felt it was like playing a computer game on an easier setting - same feel but a bit more time to pick your lines and 'drive' the car. There's definitely a good feeling when you scalp (or even keep up with) a technically faster car, though while I used to be happy doing that to other Lotus cars, I still do it but to 997 Turbos or Ferraris etc with much more power. Nev is right get a passenger ride and see how you feel. Another thing to note which may or may not be of interest but if you box clever sourcing your parts the value of the car will increase by the cost of the conversion so it won't necessarily be money down the drain like most modded cars.

Edited by pete-r, 02 December 2016 - 03:35 PM.

[pete-r]

Btw I've owned an E46 M3 and it's a great daily driver but for a track car IMHO it's leagues apart in terms of feel.

[Stevie Dubyah]

Do it.

 

SC (Stage 2, for the choonoiseurs) is the same linear pickup and nice throttle response as an NA, just lots more of it and a nice wodge of torque if you're just trickling around. Reliable too, if the 1500 miles I've driven mine since I upgraded is anything to go by.

 

As Nev said, you need to try one, but it's the most bangs for buck you'll get and I doubt an M3 will be any quicker round the track, but then I don't track, so what do I know...

[techieboy]

 

I've now pretty much given up on trackdays and will be returning it to a more road friendly car in advance of flogging it next summer.

Oh dear, that love/hate relationship on a downward turn again!

 

 

Yeah, pretty much. It's too compromised for enjoyable road use with the suspension and noise and too noisy (and too good) for track use, so it pretty much festers in the garage all the time in no mans land. I'm going to return it to a Stage 2 or an even slightly larger pulley, OEM bushes and a couple more exhaust tweaks over the winter and either put it back on a fresh set of Bilsteins or resurrect the Cornering Force Nitrons and ARB's for a 7-10 day Alps jaunt, sans-wife, late spring/early summer and take it from there. Fully expect to sell it on my return, though

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

when you start to add power it can be a downward slope 

 

it will end up costing more to run the car generally but as mentioned above a good stage 2 is reliable but you will end pushing for more as time goes on if you stick with the car 

 

ive been a na all the way up to harrop sc 

 

i personally thing a stage 3 car was great 300 ish hp but the biggest issue with stage 3 is you have to have some engine work done which means if you have the rods and pistons done you can then just bolt on the harrop and a few more little bits and your then in the higher power vx area 

 

One thing i will say is driving a NA is a lot easier and cheaper to drive and fast well 

when you add power everything costs more and its a lot harder to drive the car quick, which normally means you have to spend more money to cope, 

 

if i had my time again i would still do the same but it did take 2 years to get my car to a stage that i felt the car was not letting me down, i think i am now the weak link rather than the car now which might sound odd but i prefer it to be me as the weak link rather than the car.It gets very frustrating when the car is slowing you down rather than your ability 

 

BUT IT COSTS A LO OF MONEY AND TIME 

 

[PaulCP]

 

I've now pretty much given up on trackdays and will be returning it to a more road friendly car in advance of flogging it next summer.

Oh dear, that love/hate relationship on a downward turn again!  

  Yeah, pretty much. It's too compromised for enjoyable road use with the suspension and noise and too noisy (and too good) for track use, so it pretty much festers in the garage all the time in no mans land. I'm going to return it to a Stage 2 or an even slightly larger pulley, OEM bushes and a couple more exhaust tweaks over the winter and either put it back on a fresh set of Bilsteins or resurrect the Cornering Force Nitrons and ARB's for a 7-10 day Alps jaunt, sans-wife, late spring/early summer and take it from there. Fully expect to sell it on my return, though

That's exactly where I got to in my thinking 18months ago

[pete-r]

I wouldn't go back either, but I do drive NA cars with a fondness. Without knowing you I'd say a lot of it also comes down to your driving capability. A gifted driver in an NA will batter a poor driver in a stage x car once you introduce corners and braking zones into the mix. As a different approach (I've been contemplating myself but I'm not good enough) you could swap the wheels for lotus forged and fit the Freno carbon brake kit. You'll save about 35kg of unsprung weight (which is a mammoth amount) and if you can get the best from it you be able to lap the car very, very, very quickly. I have forged wheels and the feel on the steering is very different from the TDs, plus it rides better. The improvements have been instant. Just a thought lol

[Captain Vimes]

It depends what you want. The NA VX is great on track. When setup and driven well on a regular track day there's not many cars that will come past, as you know. Plus, it'll go round and round all day long without issue.

 

Adding a supercharger makes it quicker on the straights to get past other cars and lap times improve (but not by as much as you might expect). I got bored of the NA power so adding the SC made it fun on track again but... it's then quicker than 95% of cars on track (100% if it's a LOT day) so you need to pick your track days carefully otherwise you end up getting held up (but it's also quite satisfying passing lots of cars). 

 

It does create too much heat on hot mid summer track days as the main rad is blocked by the CC rad. I'm fairly certain that an extra water rad up front and a front clam cut-out would solve it and WI will help too. So if you're going to SC and want to run 30 minute sessions in the middle of summer, you need to factor in cooling but it's not impossible to solve. I'd quite like to take the pro-alloy rad out and add smaller twin rads for the CC behind cut-outs under the headlights.... Another day..

 

I wouldn't swap for an M3, I had an E36 M3 previously and it's not a track car. The beauty of a vx is that you can thrash it round a track all day long. An M3 or any other car of it's weight will only be able to lap quickly for a few laps before having to cool off OR having serious money spent on brakes. Even then it will eat tyres and pads, suspension bushes will all need replacing too. Single lap times aren't a good indicator of a good track car. For reference I run snett in 2:14 but am pretty certain a 2:12 would be achievable with less understeer (springs now replaced) and I can generally run around at snett until I run out of fuel. 

 

Fuel surge is an issue on left handed circuits but can be managed by using a higher gear between long left hand bends or better stil a pro-alloy rad.

 

My perfect track VX would be an NA with 220-250bhp but the cost of building an engine would be many times higher than solving the SC heat issue, plus it would still have fuel surge problems as the issue is with the tank design.

 

I'd fit the tyres and gearbox and see how you get on.

[MartinS]

stage 2 sc car is fantastic, and M3's (unsure about the v8's) are no problem (other than being a larger chicane than an Elise) for most sc's vx's.

A simple stage 2 is a reliable thing. Mine did 40000 miles and over 70 track days after being sc'd. Just don't mess around with it just get the simple st 2 conversion and enjoy.

 

Martin S

 

[Jimmy-Boy]

Thanks for all the comments, just when your trawling threw the net you start to wonder! i have driven Artics 400bhp SC and it did surprise me at how hard it was to drive fast - not the car (my skill) whereas i feel i am really on my limits with this NA and found i wasn't passed on the national day either. So the natural progression should really be supercharge and stick with it i guess!

[Captain Vimes]

Just to add that I wouldn't go back to NA, which probably tells you all you need to know.

[Jimmy-Boy]

Just to add that I wouldn't go back to NA, which probably tells you all you need to know.

Thanks for that! In terms of straight line speed how does the SC compare with an e46 m3? I only say that car because it is the only itch i haven't yet scratched!

[pete-r]

Stage 2 sc v M3... Owned both (and an E36 Evo) and I'd put drag race speed about a draw, the vx will be a little better off the line due to weight and probably better tyres but once up into licence losing speed an M3 should pile on. That's more gearing though than power. On corners and especially brakes an M3 is still a barge and it'll be like driving your vx with another vx on the roof! My vx is faster than my M135i auto, and that's significantly quicker than an E46. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't driven them both lol.

Edited by pete-r, 02 December 2016 - 06:16 PM.

[stu8v]

E46 will murder it. My mates done a 1.37 round cadwell in his. Stripped, Caged, coilovers and big brakes. Sadly the vx doesn't compare.

[The Batman]

stage 2 is very good stage (3 is best imo) as when you are NA and you get stuck behind a quick car but pants driver its very difficult to overtake and just have to be bumper to bumper to scare them into moving over whereas with the extra 100bhp you can just drive by

 

but that said... im happy being NA