25 replies to this topic

[Andy_VX]

Hi guys, I'm after a bit of advice, I've been slowly upgrading my VXT over the years, I like to think I've spent my limited budget in the right places thus far, I've concentrated mainly on handling. I'm now pretty happy with the setup but I could do with a bit more power and more importantly, reliability on track as I hate having to come in or worry about temps the whole time. 

 

My car was a really early tuned car from Courtenay, back when they were using the original Pace charge cooler, not sure who designed it but it's not fit for purpose and I suspect the standard intercooler would probably be better and lighter! It had a remap and a 2.5" Powerflow single outlet exhaust. It actually made pretty good power when I put it on a RR a few years back, 253bhp and about the same torque but for prolonged hard use the inlet temps get too high and as a result power is reduced. Also, on my latest Euro trip it was really struggling with the high ambient temp and thin air. 

 

So my question is where is my money best spent, I have my eye on a used Pro Alloy charge cooler kit which would obviously help with inlet temps but I would like to get a map done again as the power curve isn't quite right and I’d like to get a bit more power if possible. I also think my turbo is worn as it makes an odd noise when on high boost. I note Autovaux do an exchange service with the LEH turbo with the better manifold.

 

My plan is to rip out the Pace CC, replace with Pro Alloy one, fit the LEH turbo and then have a new map. Do you think this is the best course of action? It's still on the original clutch with no signs of wear. Don't want to spend a fortune but also know I should probably allow for a new recirc valve and actuator, is it worth going to blue injectors at around 260BHP? 

 

Happy to do the install work but would appreciate any info on a decent company to do the mapping that won't charge the earth (Courtenay). 

 

PS. I already have the Pro Alloy rad fitted. 

[siztenboots]

Andy, yes beyond 260bhp , vxr injectors would be a wise upgrade, taking into account the doubts about charge temperatures.

 

What sort of symptoms were you getting driving in Europe , I test my own maps from sea level upto 2700 meters , I don't know of anyone other supplier that does this.

 

At the current configuration, without incuring more expense for turbos, injectors, actuators, clutch, charge cooling cooling, I would suggest my 260pack software is ideal and will noticeably change the power curve to your choice and more important part throttle.

 

Let me know if you are interested in the free trial.

 

[mbes2]

I feel the stage 4 mods calling for you andy...

[Andy_VX]

Andy, yes beyond 260bhp , vxr injectors would be a wise upgrade, taking into account the doubts about charge temperatures.

 

What sort of symptoms were you getting driving in Europe , I test my own maps from sea level upto 2700 meters , I don't know of anyone other supplier that does this.

 

At the current configuration, without incuring more expense for turbos, injectors, actuators, clutch, charge cooling cooling, I would suggest my 260pack software is ideal and will noticeably change the power curve to your choice and more important part throttle.

 

Let me know if you are interested in the free trial.

 

 

Yeah certainly interested, would you mind sending me a PM with a bit more info? 

 

I think it's probably best to change the CC and turbo before getting a map as it'll need doing again afterwards. 

 

Car was doing some pretty odd things whilst in the alps last year, to be fair it was extremely hot. It was massively down on power at altitude, when you tried to push on it started to misfire and backfire quite a lot, thought this could be down to both inlet temps but also a restrictive exhaust maybe? It was also doing something very weird where it would just cut all power quite violently for a split second and then go back to normal, not the normal limp mode, it was like it was cutting ignition. As soon as I got it home it was absolutely fine with no loss of power or misfiring so pretty confident it's temperature related, I didn't have a scangauge connected on the trip so not sure what the IAT was. 

[Andy_VX]

I feel the stage 4 mods calling for you andy...

 

Ha, don't tempt me!  

 

I would love to have 300bhp+ but can't afford the inevitable clutch etc. that would need to be upgraded! I just want a reliable 270bhp (ish) that I can use all day without worry! 

[chickendippers]

I have everything you need here, hint hint  

[Andy_VX]

I have everything you need here, hint hint

 

Haha I know you have, I've already done the maths and thought about a cheeky offer  

 

In all seriousness I've wanted to improve it for years and your thread has pushed me to get it done, just need to decide on what to get with a limited budget. 

[WrightStuff]

Out of interest, at what intake temps do you start getting ECU intervention / power loss ?

I might do some torque+obd reader logging on some our our hotter euro trips this year, see what it creeps up to on a stge2/std intercooler.

[turbo2015]

im sure theres at least 2 vx220 chargecoolers currently for sale...pickup the bits cheap and fit yourself, head for the magic stage4

[SteveA]

 

I would love to have 300bhp+ but can't afford the inevitable clutch etc. that would need to be upgraded! I just want a reliable 270bhp (ish) that I can use all day without worry! 

 

 

I found the sweet spot on track for a VXT was stage 3, that said I have not driven one of Sizten's stage 4 maps. The St4 map I had was too boosty to use consistently while cornering.

[SteveA]

Out of interest, at what intake temps do you start getting ECU intervention / power loss ?

I might do some torque+obd reader logging on some our our hotter euro trips this year, see what it creeps up to on a stge2/std intercooler.

 

I was getting significant drops in power even in this country in summer at stage 2. No IAT measurements but the power was noticeably down at Croft on the main straight.

[chickendippers]

If you were closer I would suggest taking the car out for a drive to see what you think. In my opinion the best thing to do would be: K06 turbo (don't bother with the K04/LEH, they're shite at top end revs and just die off)

Chargecooler

Water meth kit (will further help with IATs even if you just use water)

80mm AFM

VXR/630cc injectors

C20LET clutch 

Remap (highly recommend RnD Motorsport)

 

On the above set up but with a forged engine, I made 329bhp (349bhp with meth) at only .9bar boost. 

PM me and I can go into a lot more detail

[Andy_VX]

im sure theres at least 2 vx220 chargecoolers currently for sale...pickup the bits cheap and fit yourself, head for the magic stage4

 

Yeah that's the plan, I can fit everything myself it's just a case of getting someone to map it. 

 

Out of interest, at what intake temps do you start getting ECU intervention / power loss ?

I might do some torque+obd reader logging on some our our hotter euro trips this year, see what it creeps up to on a stge2/std intercooler.

 

Not sure what the IAT was. One of the wires has come out of the OBD plug so i can't connect a Scangauge etc. Turns out soldering upside down is quite difficult! 

 

It would be interesting to see at what temp the ECU intervenes though. I would imagine around 60c. 

[Andy_VX]

If you were closer I would suggest taking the car out for a drive to see what you think. In my opinion the best thing to do would be: K06 turbo (don't bother with the K04/LEH, they're shite at top end revs and just die off)

Chargecooler

Water meth kit (will further help with IATs even if you just use water)

80mm AFM

VXR/630cc injectors

C20LET clutch 

Remap (highly recommend RnD Motorsport)

 

On the above set up but with a forged engine, I made 329bhp (349bhp with meth) at only .9bar boost. 

PM me and I can go into a lot more detail

 

As much as i'd love to do all of the above I really can't afford to. It does beg the question, why are you selling everything? You must have something pretty good lined up...

 

I've read conflicting views about the LEH K04 and K06 turbo argument. What manifold does the K06 turbo use? 

[chickendippers]

I have a new project underway using a different engine   

Out of interest, what have you read that is against the K06?

The K06 uses the standard manifold, however the compressor housing is machined to accommodate the bigger wheel. Power holds all the way to the redline instead of dying off at about 5.5k where the K04 is really strangled.

You can see a K06 compared with a K04 here, more info available on Courtenay's blog: http://www.courtenay...nifold-upgrade/

Blue line is K06, red line is K04. You can see that from approx 5k+ the K04 just runs out of puff so is useless at higher revs.

Edited by chickendippers, 17 January 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[Andy_VX]

Wow that's quite impressive, I do find the lack of high rpm power a bit frustrating in the VX and that graph demonstrates it nicely. 

 

Funnily enough it was from Courtenay's website that I read some conflicting info about the K06, they say it uses the OEM manifold which is prone to cracking and they also hint at the hybrid turbos offering a little less drive-ability; 

 

"From the extensive testing that we have carried out we now offer the Z20LEH Astra H VXR turbo as an upgrade turbo unit.

[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(204,204,204);]Offering driveability like a manufacturer's standard unit, rather than a hybrid, and spooling up more quickly this is an ideal unit for those wanting to upgrade to the Stage 4 conversion with Stage 4 remap.[/color]
[color=rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(204,204,204);]This unit not only features a better AR ratio but we also favour this turbocharger as it has a stronger cast manifold providing extra durability and therefore can withstand greater temperatures, heat being an issue with VX220 turbo models. The standard ZLET turbo manifold has been known to crack and so this Z20LEH unit is preferred over a hybrid turbo which is rebuild into the original weaker manifold which is prone to cracking."[/color]

 

 

[chickendippers]

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot the VX comes with a LET turbo and not a LEH.

The manifolds are slightly different on a LET & LEH turbo.

In my experience I've only ever seen 2 manifolds crack, on the same person who was the kind of person that boots it from cold and never lets the car cool down either. Never seen any others crack (other than on the wastegate but all do as far as I'm aware and it doesn't affect them).

No difference with driveability so don't worry about that

[scw02102]

water/meth injection might be a cheaper way of cooling inlet temps

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

water/meth injection might be a cheaper way of cooling inlet temps

Has yours been done

[siztenboots]

so according to the graphs , the k04 can only get 330 torque and 289 bhp

 

strange that on the same dyno , many years back in 2007 , the same turbo was making 360 torque and over 310 bhp

 

both turbo have the same CHRA and same exhaust turbine

 

something very wrong with this