19 replies to this topic

[ScottH]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm building a Lotus 340r rep from a Europa.

 

As you all know - the VXT and Europa share many similar parts.

 

What you may not know (but many will) is that the 340r has a fairly open back-end, so can hopefully dump engine / turbo heat better than it's fully-enclosed brethren.

 

I will be taking my bodywork a stage further, and probably won't use a number of the rear trim-panels, so I suspect this will aid heat-loss a little more.

 

The cars back-end may well end up looking something like this (but with a nicely coated sub-frame!)...

 

 

'Less is more' when it comes to my toys, so I don't want to add a FMIC.  I know this is massive restriction, but the decision is made.

 

I do however have a larger intercooler which I intend fitting on the subframe.  I'll duct fresh air from wherever I can to it, and I'll put a heat-shield under it.  May even stick a Spal fan on the back to pull more air through.  No air-box.  The intake will likely be a quality conical filter, short-run hard-pipe and 80mm MAF.

 

I appreciate that this is pretty much a guesstimate, and that only running time will tell the full story, but where do folks see the limits of this set-up WITHOUT the FMIC.

 

The car will be used for road-use and the occasional track day.  It will have a full Milltek system on it.

 

Is there any point in me upgrading the turbo, MAF,or injectors (VXR kit?), or will heat-soak always overcome the standard components at an early stage and render these worthless?  I guess I'm not going to see any figures that will bother the engine internals, so can I leave these alone(???).

 

Not decided on the ECU yet - will either be the Europa ECU (got), a VX ECU (got), or possibly an Omex / DTA ECU (not got) if the tuners feel it will make a significant difference.

 

Look forward to your thoughts.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

PS - Progress is at an early stage.  Ninety-something % of parts sourced and all existing parts refurbished / given fresh coatings.

 

I have the front end done - will be turning to the rear when my coolant pipes arrive from Lotus.

 

 Front.jpg   134.58KB   17 downloads

 

Yes - that is a brand spanking new chassis... long story!

 

Won't have a windscreen, just a flyscreen - this is pretty much what I'm aiming for.

 

 Idea.jpg   189.88KB   16 downloads

 

Bits...

 

 PC1.jpg   166.76KB   16 downloads

 

 

 

 

 

[Samwise]

Pretty crazy project.

I'm not the most knowledgable on engines however if you are going for a decent amount of power the VXR bits are a must, if you look up courtenay sport's stage 4 pack for the VXT which includes VXR turbo, injectors, 80mm maf, less restrictive inlet manifold, remap and 3" exhaust this can take you to around 300bhp however at this stage we tend to use a charge cooling system due to the limited airflow to the rear of the car.

 

Heatsoak only really becomes and issue if you're standing still after coming off track or at a dyno, it can be somewhat avoided by beefing up the heat shielding in particular areas of the engine bay and if you wrapped the full length of the exhaust up to the backbox im sure that would help in your case.

Standard engine internals will start to give out around 330bhp (I believe) and the OEM clutch will give way before that but then again the VXR turbo won't deliver much more than that either.

In terms of ECU if money is no object most will advise to go for a standalone ECU (not sure which) which once mapped properly will make much better use of your specs, better use of the power-per-gear and allow you to run Maf-less as well as have multiple tunes such as a low boost and high boost tune.

 

 

Although others will likely be along to hopefully advise and some will likely just ask "Why bother?"

Edited by Samwise, 06 February 2017 - 06:54 PM.

[ScottH]

Cheers Sam.

 

I'll pre-answer the 'why bother' questions with... 'because I can'.   

 

I've maybe picked this up wrong - are you saying that folks are managing consistent / reliable 300-ish bhp without FMIC's in the VXT?  

 

 

[Rosssco]

Interesting project Scott.. Where you based?

 

FMIC - presume you are meaning a large intercooler? I think some of the Lotus 211's ran a rear mounted intercooler design with ducting which may be of interest.

 

If you're starting from the ground up, up a new ECU potentially, and modifications to the Z20LET, then also consider the newer Ecotec DI engines. These will get you up to around 340-350bhp on standard components (internally stronger than the Z20LET) and generally much more advanced (and you won't need a cat which may help with your exhaust packaging!). They are just starting to be installed and may be a better option. Depends how much you want to spend I guess!

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

we normally use CC here especially for track work 

[ScottH]

Cheers guys.

 

I'm near Edinburgh Ross.  Yes - the 211 gave me the idea for the subframe mounted larger cooler.

 

I've chosen to say FMIC (front mount intercooler) as there's a bit of dubiety over the terminology.  Most folk refer to an intercooler as the 'air-to-air' rad between TB and inlet, and chargecooler as the 'water-to-air' rad that cools the jacket on the 'intercooler'.  Lotus engineers (and me!) would turn the terminology around.  I'd call the 'air-to-air' rad the chargecooler (it cools the charge!), and the intercooler as the ancillary (inter!) device that assists the charge cooler to cool the charge more efficiently.  When I've referred to FMIC, I've meant 'water-to-air' rad sited at the front of the car that feeds the chargecooler water-jacket with cool fluid in the engine bay.  Crikey - I'm getting myself in a twist now!  

 

I really don't want to look at changing mounts / shafts, etc. so I plan to stick with the C20 / Z20 block architecture.

 

Cheers CgD - yes, I too would use additional charge cooling if I was racing the car.

 

I guess that the long and short of it is, how high boost are folks running (successfully!) without additional charge cooling requirements on stock internals.

 

 

[Nev]

If you plan to boost => circa 12 PSI then I'd recommend a w-to-a intercooler. After about 18 PSI it is mandatory, otherwise your IATs will become too high, and the ignition timing will be reduced thus meaning you make less power.

 

FYI, most mappers start cutting ignition advance when the IATs reach around 55 degrees C.

Edited by Nev, 06 February 2017 - 08:40 PM.

[ScottH]

Thanks Nev!

[nicollow]

Wow, mental project

 

As mentioned, VXR bits and lowering intake temps will get to 300is bhp. I had a stage 4 VXT with a charge cooler setup that was a bit crap. It was a freakin nightmare to keep in a straight line. Hillarious when dry, widow maker when wet. The VXT engine needs a decent map to prevent it being a bit of a liability.

 

Im Edinburgh based and could pop round with a pack of biscuits and some spanners if you need a hand/want to snoop around my SC VX...

[ScottH]

Cheers Nic.

 

Currently resting after shoulder surgery a few days ago, but there will no doubt come a moment when I need some extra hands!  Thanks!

[siztenboots]

since you have a fairly free choice about packaging an air-to-air setup , ram air in , and lots of routing options to reject the waste air

 

what would be your rough torque expectations , desired curve?

[TFD]

It has nothing to do with power. Like Nev said: IAT's will determine your timing setting and therefore limit your power to protect the engine from knock.

If I'm correct this is a VXT engine right? If so... well... DON'T.

 

I read all about you guys running +20psi on these turbo's to reach 300ish bhp and pushing shitloads of heat into the engine. Like I said before: That is not a good design. waterinjection, CC's etc. are just a fix-you-upper and bandaid to the real problem.

 

Running no intercooler (or simular) is possible, but don't be dissapointed if you only end up with 200-250bhp. Heck.. I'm not even talking trackdays here.

 

Great looking idea you have btw... like the 340 look 

[siztenboots]

I can provide a map that gives 260 bhp at the wheels ( 300bhp atf ) with only 15.5 psi 

[tommobot]

Bolt666 has a huge full width intercooler sat on the rear subframe, along with stage 4 gubbins.

 

It has a roof scoop and side vents directing air straight into it (exige rear end)... think its getting 300hp +

 

 

[siztenboots]

if you can give the intercooler sizing and position first priority without compromise and short pipework then it would probably be the most efficient setup

[ScottH]

Thanks guys.  

 

Had a very helpful chat with Courtenays this morning.  

 

All hypothetical at this stage as the A-to-A system for my car is an unknown factor, but the 'gut-feeling' was that the IAT's could probably be maintained at a level where the VXR turbo, injectors, and 80mm MAF would be useful upgrades.  250-275 bhp would be a realistic target - maybe a little more.

 

Happy with those figures, but understand it's all pie-in-the-sky until the car is put on the RR and the IAT limits are determined.

 

Also discussed the benefits of ditching the 2.5" Miltek and moving across to a 3" Tullett.  Ditching the dual-mass flywheel and fitting the VXR flywheel / clutch. Which ECU to use, etc.  All helped me get a clearer picture of where I'm going with the engine.

 

The biggest positive is that I have far more room to play with on my project than someone with a rear clam fitted. 

 

[ScottH]

It has nothing to do with power. Like Nev said: IAT's will determine your timing setting and therefore limit your power to protect the engine from knock.

If I'm correct this is a VXT engine right? If so... well... DON'T.

 

I read all about you guys running +20psi on these turbo's to reach 300ish bhp and pushing shitloads of heat into the engine. Like I said before: That is not a good design. waterinjection, CC's etc. are just a fix-you-upper and bandaid to the real problem.

 

Running no intercooler (or simular) is possible, but don't be dissapointed if you only end up with 200-250bhp. Heck.. I'm not even talking trackdays here.

 

Great looking idea you have btw... like the 340 look 

 

 

Cheers.

 

Maybe not explained myself well.

 

I will be using a cooler... just an air-to-air one. 

 

'I read all about you guys running +20psi'...  ???

 

LOL... not me mate.  I've dug into many engines in my time, but never a turbo one.  I understand the basics, but FI is a learning curve for me - hence the dumb questions.

[tibby]

Nice build !!!!

[Nev]

Here is a recent rear mounted air to air cooler on a Lotus: https://www.facebook...&type=3

 

Edited by Nev, 08 February 2017 - 07:46 PM.

[ScottH]

Cheers Nev!  That's a monster intercooler!  

 

These are a couple of pics of the 2-11 set-up... slightly less mahoosive!