96 replies to this topic

[The Batman]

You have to remember the only real people that are having iat problems are the people running 3-400bhp. That's twice the standard lsj intake manifold was designed for. In this instance the topic starter doesn't even know what his iats are so in my eyes and I'm sure in yours nev why would you completely cut up the intake manifold without even knowing the data? Surely you agree with me here.

[Nev]

You have to remember the only real people that are having iat problems are the people running 3-400bhp. That's twice the standard lsj intake manifold was designed for. In this instance the topic starter doesn't even know what his iats are so in my eyes and I'm sure in yours nev why would you completely cut up the intake manifold without even knowing the data? Surely you agree with me here.

 

That's why I just asked you for the boost levels and SCR of the engine, I can calculate the IATs then.

 

With a finger in the air I'd say on a warm day it's almost a certainty that the stage 3 guys will have their ignition cut, and possibly even the stage 2 guys. Klassen cuts ignition at 55 degrees C (on the VXT), which could viably be reached even without a SC'ed in the engine bay.

Edited by Nev, 12 March 2017 - 12:16 AM.

[FLD]

Nev you're definitely on your period these last couple of days aren't you The problem is space and money. Winstar offered to make a new bigger better intake but the demand wasn't there. There is only a problem when going over 320bhp imo But why spend loads of hours, trial and errors, big headaches when can just fit water injection All the cheap methods like in this thread have been tried and tested and failed unfortunately. As for keyboard warriors..

  Well if water injection works and you are happy to stop every 60 mins or whatever to refill then that's great. However a proper long term solution can't be that hard. I've had a look over SC'ed cars and a solution seemed viable to me.   The problem is, these things require a bit of gumption, somewhat lacking on here. You can't just squish all that air and expect it to stay cool. Much as I like SC'ed cars boosting the charge causes real world problems.   As for you inference that I'm just a keyboard warrior, yesterday I was chopping up front wishbones and rewelding them to change the kingpin angle and heavily reduce the castor. Not something I've even heard of anyone on here attempting.   You keep having a dig at me, because I roll my eyes at the development apathy on here. You need to remember it takes people like Adam and myself to push things forward and freely share the results/designs or everyone would still be driving OEM powered cars. You'd do well to remember than next time you buy a "kit part" off the shelf and add it to an NA and then charge someone for it. That "kit part" was developed by someone, somewhere, and in my case I freely share that info (rather than try and make money off people).

I've changed front wishbones before for this as did atomx. Didn't work out for me.

[The Batman]

I'm sure with your capabilities you can do a search Also what's the spec on the chargecooler rad he had? As this was in a Astra so probably smaller than a vx one. Did it have a header tank for added capacity? Did it have dual pass mod? Phenolic spacers? I understand what you say about people need to try things etc and I do support that but as I've said a few times aswell as others, people have tried this in America and not achieved great results. Modifying the intake manifold in the states has been done to death and the original always seems to come out on top.

Edited by The Batman, 12 March 2017 - 12:25 AM.

[Nev]

 

 

Nev you're definitely on your period these last couple of days aren't you The problem is space and money. Winstar offered to make a new bigger better intake but the demand wasn't there. There is only a problem when going over 320bhp imo But why spend loads of hours, trial and errors, big headaches when can just fit water injection All the cheap methods like in this thread have been tried and tested and failed unfortunately. As for keyboard warriors..

  Well if water injection works and you are happy to stop every 60 mins or whatever to refill then that's great. However a proper long term solution can't be that hard. I've had a look over SC'ed cars and a solution seemed viable to me.   The problem is, these things require a bit of gumption, somewhat lacking on here. You can't just squish all that air and expect it to stay cool. Much as I like SC'ed cars boosting the charge causes real world problems.   As for you inference that I'm just a keyboard warrior, yesterday I was chopping up front wishbones and rewelding them to change the kingpin angle and heavily reduce the castor. Not something I've even heard of anyone on here attempting.   You keep having a dig at me, because I roll my eyes at the development apathy on here. You need to remember it takes people like Adam and myself to push things forward and freely share the results/designs or everyone would still be driving OEM powered cars. You'd do well to remember than next time you buy a "kit part" off the shelf and add it to an NA and then charge someone for it. That "kit part" was developed by someone, somewhere, and in my case I freely share that info (rather than try and make money off people).

I've changed front wishbones before for this as did atomx. Didn't work out for me.

 

 

You are one of the clever ones, I'm not sure AtomX gets any prizes for his skills though, he struck me as being too wishy washy and his car never even reached a rolling chassis did it?

 

It sounds interesting, what were you attempting to do with wishbones, the same as us or some other subtle changes?

 

I've been considering lowering my outer rear wishbone mating point to the hub carrier to get my bump curve back to normal for my lowered rear ride height. But the packaging difficulty and making it strong enough is what worries me.

 

Edited by Nev, 12 March 2017 - 12:27 AM.

[smiley]

 

As a matter of interest what boost PSI do the stage 2 and stage 3 cars make, and what's the SCR of the Z22SE?

 

 

 

On my car:

Stage 3 (280 bhp) running M62 using 11.6 psi boost causes a peak of 75 degrees celcius intake temp. Stage 4 (335 bhp) running harrop using 15.9 psi boost causes a peak of 95 degrees celcius intake temp.

All this is measured on track on a hot day.

 

What does SCR stand for?

 

Edited by smiley, 12 March 2017 - 08:18 AM.

[dewismotorsport]

Cheers Nev,was worth the try for a days work and worst case a new inlet. I'm hoping this solves my issue and that water/meth injection isn't needed. Standard comp on a 2.2 is 9.5:1 and I was previously running a stage 1 CS pulley which made 9psi. I now have a standard LSJ pulley on which should make 12-13psi. For me it wasn't the power that was causing the issue more how hard I was working the engine on track. I would only have worsened the problem by upping the power more so wanted to find a workable solution before even thinking of going up in power.

[dewismotorsport]

You have to remember the only real people that are having iat problems are the people running 3-400bhp. That's twice the standard lsj intake manifold was designed for. In this instance the topic starter doesn't even know what his iats are so in my eyes and I'm sure in yours nev why would you completely cut up the intake manifold without even knowing the data? Surely you agree with me here.

I could narrow it down to intake temps as oil and water temps were fine, wideband afr's were if anything on the rich side (CS map) so that doesn't leave much else left.

[dewismotorsport]

Finished design, for reference seeing as the picture links in original post don't show them






No reason it wouldn't fit into a vx220 as it's more compact than the original.

[Nev]

Mint.

 

It's great to see innovation like this.

[smiley]

[Exmantaa]

As said a few times, this was tried in the US with mixed results so not many pursue this route. One sayed (Freakta) it was better, but had no proof of the supposed gains. Later he did a rebuild with 2.4 engine, TVS and decent power. But another one I read about actually lost boost and power, which was then confirmed with dyno graphs...

But I will be positive surprised if your set-up does proove decent gains, so lets await next weeks testing.  

[mige]

Hello Nice work I make Same Last year on my speedster with very good results Max iat i See was 49 degree at35 degree Outside Without Waes i have it installet but not used Sorry for my Bad englisch:) Nice day mige  image.jpeg   79.48KB   10 downloads

Attached Files

•  image.jpeg   45.21KB   7 downloads

[Nev]

Wow, 2 others who've done this mod.

[smiley]

yeah, lack of information is part of the myth on this mod.

Hopefully we start seeing some actual logresults.

Edited by smiley, 13 March 2017 - 08:55 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Hello Nice work I make Same Last year on my speedster with very good results Max iat i See was 49 degree at35 degree Outside Without Waes i have it installet but not used Sorry for my Bad englisch:) Nice day mige  

 

Mige,

 

You also run with a Harrop, right?  Are you not on a 2.9 pulley and tracking it?

Please post your engine specs and latest OBD dyno graph with this cooler. (remember you had around 380??)

Edited by Exmantaa, 13 March 2017 - 09:01 PM.

[NickB787]

Something like this would work but this one is for the K series engine https://www.google.c...wJ1Qqi1JDUyxMM:

[dewismotorsport]

The first pic smiley posted I've seen before on a cobalt ss forum where I spoke to users who had don't it. There is very little info about what people have done and very few pictures. Its good to here that you've had good results before water injection.

[Exmantaa]

Something like this would work but this one is for the K series engine https://www.google.c...wJ1Qqi1JDUyxMM:

 

Ah, did they finally make that for real??

Saw it when it was only in the design phase and it looked very promising for our engine layout...

 

Good that we are exploring new cooling options again,

Edited by Exmantaa, 13 March 2017 - 11:05 PM.

[mige]

Hello Yes on harrop with 2.75 pulley and ati superdamper overdrive so around 2.65 pulley 2.2 forged engine with headwork 3" full exhoust slefmade Before it was real 375-380 i think Now around 400 but not much time for mapping Becouse injectors are now to small now i am on 860 injectors I look evening for graphs and detail pictures Nice day