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Idle Hunting And Bogging [Z22Se]


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#21 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:53 AM

ah the same as me 

 

1/12th of a second is the official delay time 

 



#22 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:55 AM

http://www.innovatem...LC-2_Manual.pdf

 

page 9



#23 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 09:59 AM

im not 100% but think i set mine to 80mS



#24 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:00 AM

what did you put the ignition up to in the ignition table 



#25 TFD

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:02 AM

Area: 30/40 kPa at 800/1000 rpm upped by 3 degrees from 14/15ish to 17/18ish.



#26 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:06 AM

have you tried 25 ? 

 

the other thing to try is put the idle ignition to around 4/5ths of what you found is best in the main ignition table



#27 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:08 AM

do it at 20Kpa also 



#28 Exmantaa

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:27 AM

Little update:

 

Adjusted the fule % corrections in the transient and when pushed all goes to 10.9 afr. Still to rich but better. Adjusted the ignitiontiming in the ignition table and I can pull off in 1st now without touching the throttle. Even revving at idle goes way smoother than it was. Still a tiny hesitationm but we're getting there.

 

Now the important thing:

 

AFR delay time:

 

As you can see, the fuel correction seems to happen a tad after the acc. is pushed. Funny thing is that at the crosshair (10.4 afr) the fueltable allready is at 20kPa/coasting (like the rest of the parameters).

I think that the afr timing is not corresponding with the actual reading. In OBD the delay is set at 90 ms but log delay seems about 1,5 sec. Will ask Peter about this as well.

 

An answer would be great... so you can tell if the knock is due lean mixture of something else.

 

 

1k0.jpg

 

So the mixture goes rich when you let go off the throttle, followed by a lean spike. (I assume because of the closed loop correction. Should log fuel trims and IDC with this.)

Fuel evaporating of the walls, so it should inject a tad less when going off throttle?

This is tricky tuning...


 



#29 TFD

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 11:55 AM

Thats what I think is the delaytime.
If there is a delay, you have to move the afr line 1.5 sec backwards timewise.

Then it shows that it is going rich when acc is pushed and things seems to be right.

So need to know wich value is placed were in the timeline.

#30 Exmantaa

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 01:15 PM

Log injector duty cycle with this, so you can see when more/less fuel is injected in the engine... :sleep:

(If there is delay in the AFR reading, you should imagine it forwards. Or is OBD delaying the logged AFR?



#31 oakmere

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 07:16 AM

What ever you set the idle ignition to at 30 - 40 kpa make sure you set all the other cells the same.
I found when I went over 18 degrees at idle it started to become unstable.

#32 TFD

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 08:11 AM

All other ignition cells in the idle table?

That one is now at 11.4 degrees@30kpa. The rest is 5.4.

Increasing the ignition in the ignition table helps really well to pull off in 1st.

#33 TFD

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 09:50 AM

I thought I'd share this with you guys:

 

- This is a copy of part of what i sent them for reference, not my whole email -
1. Do you have any data to support the claim that a sensor 36 inches from the turbo creates a noticable delay in data? Would moving the sensor closer provide a more real time reading? Is 36" too far from the engine for reliable realtime data?

2. Being closer will heat negativly affect the readings? Does the copper heat sink theory hold any weight to allow accurate readings?

Anything else that would be helpful to support the 36" from turbo suggest location.




AEM Tech Support-
There is a delay, noticeable is relative but yes... There is a delay. Moving the sensor closer would reduce the life of the sensor, but it would be worth the increase in accuracy. I have seen these copper heat sinks before, but we have not done direct testing for them. My personal thinking on them is they are a bit excessive and don't return any benefit. They will provide small amounts of heat dissipation/insulation, but from what my basic understanding of thermodynamics tells me is there is little to no benefit. 

Basically; Moving it closer WILL lower the life, but will provide more accuracy. 



#34 CHILL Gone DUTCH

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:29 AM

maybe just play with the delay times until it looks right in the logs then maybe confirming what happens with the gauge 



#35 oakmere

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:43 PM

All other ignition cells in the idle table?

That one is now at 11.4 degrees@30kpa. The rest is 5.4

Increasing the ignition in the ignition table helps really well to pull off in 1st.


Yes so at the moment you have one cell set too 11.4 and the rest at 5.4.
So I mean set all cells to 11.4.
If the car runs away a bit when coasting reduce the 20kpa cell ignition advance.

#36 TFD

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 02:42 PM

Thanx to clarify.

#37 Exmantaa

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 05:09 PM

Daan, For these transient issues you should also look to the standard O2 sensor, as a narrowband sensor normally reacts faster than a wideband. It's probably also positioned closer to the engine....






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