15 replies to this topic

[Kris_Funcup]

Hi there,

 

New to the forum!

 

Looking at buying new car at the moment in the form of a road legal track car -  track days/weekend drives etc.. I do quite a lot of racing and driving tuition so looking for a car that gives plenty of feedback and is good fun to drive. I've had S2000's, MR2 Turbo race car, Mx5's etc. Loved the Mx5, it was great to teach in but just wasn't quick enough for when I wanted to have a bit more of a go. Is the NA VX much quicker? I am struggling to gauge how fast these are in comparison to other cars..

 

Currently looking at:

 

- VX220 NA - better with a few more HP?

- VX220 SC/VXT - are these reliable on track? Assuming suffer form heat soak after hard laps?

- S2000 (although already owned one and prices have gone up loads since!

- Integra

-Boxster S

- Westfield - although perhaps a bit too track focused - not sure the missus would approve!

 

Will probably end up running it on 15 inch rims as I get free rubber, does anyone else do this? 

 

Also, are the cars easy to work on?

 

Sorry for all the questions! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ArticMonkey]

Either buy an NA with the intention of supercharging it, or by one already converted. As it uses only OEM parts from GM it's very reliable on and off track. A charge cooler will sort most of the heat soak out but you're always going to get some loss of power. Water injection is the only cure but that's still early days for our cars ATM. 15" are fine if you get the correct wheel and offset. There's a group buy going on now so it happens on a set. Stock form, the NA would run rings around an MX5 but just won't have the push to get past on the straights when playing with most high end cars. Hence why adding another 100bhp from the sc really brings the car to life and will see off pretty much most hardcore track day cars.

Edited by ArticMonkey, 29 May 2017 - 10:04 AM.

[Sticky]

My throttle bodied road legal/track day ready NA is for sale. Although she doesn't have the outright power of an SC she's pretty even on lap times. http://www.vx220.org...on-calypso-red/

[ArticMonkey]

I can vouch for sticky's car. Great example of a well modded car set up for track and road.

[Kris_Funcup]

Either buy an NA with the intention of supercharging it, or by one already converted. As it uses only OEM parts from GM it's very reliable on and off track. A charge cooler will sort most of the heat soak out but you're always going to get some loss of power. Water injection is the only cure but that's still early days for our cars ATM. 15" are fine if you get the correct wheel and offset. There's a group buy going on now so it happens on a set. Stock form, the NA would run rings around an MX5 but just won't have the push to get past on the straights when playing with most high end cars. Hence why adding another 100bhp from the sc really brings the car to life and will see off pretty much most hardcore track day cars.

 

 

My throttle bodied road legal/track day ready NA is for sale. Although she doesn't have the outright power of an SC she's pretty even on lap times. http://www.vx220.org...on-calypso-red/

 

Thanks guys. Really useful - Yeah I hate heat soak with a passion! Chargecooled the MR2 Turbo I had and it works to an extent but if you really push it then power deteriorated quite quickly.. Although yeah I can see why an extra 100 bhp would put a great big grin on your face.

 

Sticky, your car is a superb spec!! How is reliability in that state of tune? I'd love to have something like that but although I'm sure its more than worth the money its probably a bit too much for me.

 

Have prices gone up in the last year or so? I looked a year or two ago and I swear they were cheaper at the time. or maybe I was just looking at shoddy examples!!

[vocky]

prices bottomed out a few years ago, plus most owners realise their good examples are worth decent money

 

NA examples below £8k tend to be either cat C, Cat D, need some work doing or need a full respray.

 

NA examples around £10k should be HPI clear and anything above that figure should have lots of goodies or be mint cars.

 

It's quite expensive to rebuild the suspension ready for track use, Nitron or Quantum shocks are around £1.5k. You can probably double that for a complete suspension refresh

 

Sticky's car has been a no expense spared build to create a track orientated vx220, its good value for money because it has had the full suspension refresh done. The engine can easily make another 20 bhp with some better cams.

[Sticky]

Either buy an NA with the intention of supercharging it, or by one already converted. As it uses only OEM parts from GM it's very reliable on and off track. A charge cooler will sort most of the heat soak out but you're always going to get some loss of power. Water injection is the only cure but that's still early days for our cars ATM. 15" are fine if you get the correct wheel and offset. There's a group buy going on now so it happens on a set. Stock form, the NA would run rings around an MX5 but just won't have the push to get past on the straights when playing with most high end cars. Hence why adding another 100bhp from the sc really brings the car to life and will see off pretty much most hardcore track day cars.

   

My throttle bodied road legal/track day ready NA is for sale. Although she doesn't have the outright power of an SC she's pretty even on lap times. http://www.vx220.org...on-calypso-red/

  Thanks guys. Really useful - Yeah I hate heat soak with a passion! Chargecooled the MR2 Turbo I had and it works to an extent but if you really push it then power deteriorated quite quickly.. Although yeah I can see why an extra 100 bhp would put a great big grin on your face.   Sticky, your car is a superb spec!! How is reliability in that state of tune? I'd love to have something like that but although I'm sure its more than worth the money its probably a bit too much for me.   Have prices gone up in the last year or so? I looked a year or two ago and I swear they were cheaper at the time. or maybe I was just looking at shoddy examples!!

I am lucky to have had Vocky rebuild my engine and give all the electrics a once over so she's v reliable. Goes all day long on track.

[Nev]

If you hate heat soak, be aware that the SC'ed cars don't have a good default IC'ing method apart from the couple with a water injection system.

 

The tuned TC'ed cars also suffer unless they have a 3rd party IC'er.

 

In short the combination of mid engined and boosted nature of the car is not good for heat soak so you you are right to consider it as an issue.

 

Lastly, if you buy one, I'd strongly consider reading up on the safety pre-checks as there are a few well known bugbears (like weak bolts holding the hubs to the wishbone) that can end in a nasty surprise.

 

GL.

 

Edited by Nev, 30 May 2017 - 11:05 AM.

[Pidgeon]

I would suggest an MRE car is not ideal for driving tuition.  High levels of grip and excellent feedback, but once it starts to rotate, the novices won't catch it.  15s work, I've used them myself for the same reasons, but you end up too low for road use (assuming you'll be on 195/55 ish sizes).  Also not ideal for tuition as there's too much front end grip with the same width f and r.

[Kris_Funcup]

If you hate heat soak, be aware that the SC'ed cars don't have a good default IC'ing method apart from the couple with a water injection system.

 

The tuned TC'ed cars also suffer unless they have a 3rd party IC'er.

 

In short the combination of mid engined and boosted nature of the car is not good for heat soak so you you are right to consider it as an issue.

 

Lastly, if you buy one, I'd strongly consider reading up on the safety pre-checks as there are a few well known bugbears (like weak bolts holding the hubs to the wishbone) that can end in a nasty surprise.

 

GL.

 

 

Hi Nev,

 

Thanks for the info, I'm starting the think NA is certainly the way forward in my case at least. And thanks about the bugbears, you're right, that could end up ugly as..!

 

I would suggest an MRE car is not ideal for driving tuition.  High levels of grip and excellent feedback, but once it starts to rotate, the novices won't catch it.  15s work, I've used them myself for the same reasons, but you end up too low for road use (assuming you'll be on 195/55 ish sizes).  Also not ideal for tuition as there's too much front end grip with the same width f and r.

 

Normally I'd agree with you re mid engine cars, however as we race in Mid engine single seaters (check out funcup.co.uk) I end up teaching a lot of these customers so it would suit a little better for this purpose. For the absolute novice though, we do tend to go down the standard MX5 route to begin with due to the the 'rotation issues' - I used to teach in a Ap1 S2000 and had similar issues then with snap oversteer. Interesting what you say re tyres.. really to low for road use? I genuinely hadn't considered.. And yeah I was considering 205 50 15 back, 195 50 15 front.

[Pidgeon]

My supply was 195/50/15.  I'd only use them for track work, when I'd also have the Nitrons on - not set too low.  I remember bottoming out on the A5 heading for Trac Mon, removing much of the exhaust flexible joint in the process.  Speed bumps would have been out of the question.

 

You'll be a little higher on the 205, I guess suspension will matter.  The VXT is too soft on standard suspension for the track, the NA less so.  It's dealing with the weight at the back where the turbo's cast iron block makes itself known.  There's no doubt the NA is the better driving experience on track.  Temperatures only become an issue when the power outputs are extended, keep it sensible and they'll run all day.

 

I think most run at least 20mm wider on the rear, 'standard' TD rubber was a 195f, 225 r, with 10mm between the two I'd not expect the front to tell you much before the rear surrenders.

 

I'm aware of Fun Cup, seems to operate left field of most motorsport, but I've never understood endurance racing anyway.  I did 45 minutes at Spa once, that was enough!

[quimbles]

are you the chap who came out with me at bedford yesterday?

[Kris_Funcup]

are you the chap who came out with me at bedford yesterday

Small world! That would be me, and thanks again for taking me around, you were going well.

[quimbles]

are you the chap who came out with me at bedford yesterday

Small world! That would be me, and thanks again for taking me around, you were going well.

Pleasure, there's not many of us left Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

[ArticMonkey]

are you the chap who came out with me at bedford yesterday

Small world! That would be me, and thanks again for taking me around, you were going well.

Pleasure, there's not many of us left Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

Should of come out in the MG

[quimbles]

Should of come out in the MG Damn right!

Edited by quimbles, 31 May 2017 - 07:41 PM.