10 replies to this topic

[turbo2015]

Need some advice…

 

Thought id post this here, pistonheads has a diy forum section ;0)

 

My self build has been on standstill for a while now  for one reason or another.

 

Ive been recommended a very large building firm through one of my builder mates ,. Initially had them out to price up for 1st& 2nd fix carpentry only as the build is at shell stage with roof on and joists in, however the company takes on all aspects of building work first impressions are good they have good reviews and been in business for a while..  We are meeting up to set a daily rate.

 

How would I do this, do I ask him for his  daily rate on each trade ie 

-carpenters 

-plumbers 

-general builders 

-electricians (hes said we will work out price form number of points)

-Plasterers 

 

He says most of his guys are multi trained. Do you think he will give me a flat rate, how would I work out the daily rate for each person when meting him onsite.

 

He has indicated that he isn’t the cheapest person on the market he’s medium to high, makes sense as he has higher overhead than the 1 man joe blogs off the street. But them he can get the job done quicker.

 

Ive said it fine that he charges more than other but I need a solid days work, we are meeting to discuss rates. He indicated 220, seem like a lot, i just don’t want to end up being  a open cheque book. He prefers a daily rate and said it would work out best for both of us as it will allow his team to work on my build when he cant keep  them busy,  and if things don’t work out we can shake hands and parts ways.

 

2nd thing the build is vat free, when negotiating labour charges does he give me cost with vat included , does he claim it back when im issued a certificate from building control? Or does he exclude it from the weekly invoice, how does that work?

 

then the usually we will meet up weekly to pay the week wages, and check on progress, i wont be onsite everyday, but he will have a foreman onsite to mange the team, and i also cctv onsite, can check the whole day in 5mins with time lapse view.

 

alot of questions, any help will be much appreciated.

 

thanks :0)

[Harry Hornet]

my brother ran a small build company , all sorts from small extensions to larger golf complex stuff

 

did two jobs for me

 

average cost per person per day between 200 and 240

 

mulitiskilled

 

the only suggestion i would say is have an agreed cost per job, and if any changes along the way due to unforseen problems that it is carried out as apropoer change and documented and have sign offs for each critical stage as you would when buying anything of value

 

hope this helps

[Madmitch]

Did a self build here so costs are probably not similar enough to make a comparison but I simply asked for a price to go from start to bare shell with electrics, plumbing, tiling etc.  The overrun was horrendous despite taking everything I could think of into account, the English architect lied from day one and the penalty clause for lateness was ignored which I had been part of the contract, had been omitted.  Yes I should have gone through it line by line myself, another lesson learned!  So, all I would say is make sure the penalty clause for lateness is included!! 

[Madmitch]

Did a self build here so costs are probably not similar enough to make a comparison but I simply asked for a price to go from start to bare shell with electrics, plumbing, tiling etc.  The overrun was horrendous despite taking everything I could think of into account, the English architect lied from day one and the penalty clause for lateness, which I had been assured was part of the contract, had been omitted.  Yes I should have gone through it line by line myself, another lesson learned!  So, all I would say is make sure the penalty clause for lateness is included!! 

 

[Jetpilot]

I am in the industry and absolutely despise day rates, get a price for the works and you know where you stand, being a new build i should be pretty straightforward to price. I am just finishing my own new build and the only "raised voices" have been over day rates and that was with a mate, what happens if they finish half hour early/start half hour late/sit around for an hour at lunch, plus i have no idea how anyone can budget if they dont know the price.

 

Some guys will zero rate, some guys wont, it depends on their accountants (i.e some accountants cant be bothered), however as you say you can claim it back at the end of the build, i would very much suspect with how he has described the job he will be wanting "cash".

 

Also do not forget, although multi trained, you will be needing gas safe and electrical certificates so make sure you see their relevant paperwork.

 

Sorry to sound negative but i have seen many people bitten in the past by day rates.

 

If you still want to go down day rates:

 

Plumber £200

Chippie £150-£175

Sparky £200-£250

Plasterers £150

Decorating £125-£150

Tilers £25-£35 per sqr metre.

Edited by Jetpilot, 14 June 2017 - 03:00 PM.

[Tommo]

Definitely get a fixed price lump sum deal, preferrably with a Bill of Quants if you can get one out of him.

 

If he's even remotely competent he should be able to price an extension from shell to completion.

 

I've got 4 jobs live in London at the minute so i'll have plenty of day works on file as a point of reference, they won't be comparable in size but they'll give a general idea of what you're looking at, if you did go down that route.

 

If he give you a L/S price and you want an eye casting over it, just shout up.

 

(and good luck getting a decent Plasterer in London for £150/day, or a painter for that matter!)

[Dan r]

In my opinion day rates are only any good for very small jobs and with people you trust and know work hard. I usually do a few little jobs at the end of a main contract on day rate. Using your job as an infill for his guys doesn't sound ideal, you may only get them onsite occasionally.

[turbo2015]

I decided to do the sensible thing and take the advice given Thanks  everyone!

 

Im being asked for a scope plans etc for the carpenter to price up….I take it he means scope of works.

 

How would I drum up a scope for the following trades to price up.

-Carpenter…specify on plans height & width of pocket doors… Plans indicating floor area for flooring….skirting boards…confirm positions of all

stud walls…confirm stairs type open tread/closed tread. Have I missed anything?

 

-Plumber…specify position of toilets/sinks/wetrooms/taps…show location for utility room to house boiler etc….

 

-electrician Show points plugs…switches…spot lights…network points…central distribution area.

 

I will put up some pics of the site tomorrow. its has a man cave :0)

[turbo2015]

Pictures!  taken me 2 years to get to this stage...Ive been stung by trades along the way.... steel guys got all of the roof steel angles wrong, 6 months of fighting to get then to admit fault and rectify.this build has taken the life out of me, im sure it will be worth it in the end. The basement team were great had them on a day rate, everyone else after Brickie/roofer/steel guys disaster.

 

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[turbo2015]

Definitely get a fixed price lump sum deal, preferrably with a Bill of Quants if you can get one out of him.

 

If he's even remotely competent he should be able to price an extension from shell to completion.

 

I've got 4 jobs live in London at the minute so i'll have plenty of day works on file as a point of reference, they won't be comparable in size but they'll give a general idea of what you're looking at, if you did go down that route.

 

If he give you a L/S price and you want an eye casting over it, just shout up.

 

(and good luck getting a decent Plasterer in London for £150/day, or a painter for that matter!)

Thanks mate i will drop you a pm.

 

any recommendation on trades men , will be much appreciated.