19 replies to this topic

[Nev]

Was listening to an article on radio 4 this morning which made my blood boil:

 

Woman passenger in cab opens cab door to get out without looking. Door opens into cyclist. Cyclist knocked over and immediately run over by a van driver and is killed instantly. Van driver drives off from scene, later caught and found to be 2.5 times over the drink limit (and is a known alcoholic and repeat offender).The "justice" metered out was:

 

Woman who opened the door without looking: £80 fine.

Van driver: suspended jail sentence, 28 month driving ban, no fine.

 

 

 

Discuss...

 

[chris_uk]

One of my friends was driving on a 30mph (admittedly doing 36mph)  piece of road with a central reservation, a druggie (who was out of his face on heroin) just started walking out in front of my mate and he swerved out of the way but the druggie ran towards his car. my mate hit him and killed him. 

 

he got a 3 year driving ban and spent 6 months in prison. 

[C8RKH]

Taxi pulls up on the left and "parks" near the kerb. Customer pays taxi and opens door to find that a bloody stupid, ejeet, cyclist had decided that cycling up the inside of a parked taxi, by the kerb would be a sensible thing to do.  Cyclist gets hit by door opening and breaks wrist. Customer suffers severe bruising to arm, shoulder and side.

 

Cyclist gets compensation, customer gets sweet FA AND gets prosecuted for unsafely opening a car door.

 

FFS, go discuss....  

 

A number of cyclists get killed every year trying to undertake large lorries, artics, and buses in city's when they (the vehicle is turning left and even indicting to turn left!)  Some cyclists need to stop being so bloody righteous and engage their fooking brains and stop going through red lights, cycling on pavements, not using perfectly good cycling paths when they exit etc etc etc....

 

(Oh, and by the way, I am a long time cyclist!)

[fiveoclock]

I live and drive in London a lot. This is no exaggeration, most cyclists in central London ride like fcuking idiots, jumping red lights when it suits them, riding on the pavement when it suits them and riding across pedestrian crossings when it suits them. This is the reason people hate them with a passion, have no time for their moaning and don't give them any leeway. There isnt this attitude to motorcyclists because in general they dont ride like fcukwits. Cyclists need to sort out their own kind before any change will happen. The ball is in their court.

[fiveoclock]

And if there was "justice on UK roads" cyclists would be tested, taxed, insured and bikes registered with a visible plate. That would go some of the way to keeping these turds in check

[Nev]

I agree, loads of cyclists ride like twats, but that's not specifically what I was getting at. The point I was trying to make is the inequity between one sentence and another in general for road offences.

 

To draw an example: motorist doing 120 MPG down empty motorway in good conditions, pulled over, sentenced to 3 months in prison without hurting anyone.

In the Radio 4 eg: Taxi passenger + drunk driver actually causes the death of someone, gets £80 fine and suspended sentence.

 

There is no balance between those two sentences that I see.

Edited by Nev, 11 September 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[PaulCP]

And if there was "justice on UK roads" cyclists would be tested, taxed, insured and bikes registered with a visible plate. That would go some of the way to keeping these turds in check

This^^^^^^^^^ and subjected to the same rules of the road as everyone else. What really gets me is that they believe that everyone should give way to them, they just don't get that cycling down the inside of queuing traffic at speed could be dangerous since they know that if anything happens they don't get blamed, it's always someone else's fault.

[Nev]

 

And if there was "justice on UK roads" cyclists would be tested, taxed, insured and bikes registered with a visible plate. That would go some of the way to keeping these turds in check

This^^^^^^^^^ and subjected to the same rules of the road as everyone else. What really gets me is that they believe that everyone should give way to them, they just don't get that cycling down the inside of queuing traffic at speed could be dangerous since they know that if anything happens they don't get blamed, it's always someone else's fault.

 

 

I agree entirely, spawned by the "it's not my responsibility, it must be yours" culture that is endemic in our world now.

 

However, the law (ie sentencing by judges) has meter out common sense or else people have no respect for it, as it is seen as being dysfunctional. Justice has to be proportional to the crime. Killing someone and getting a £80 fine and a suspended sentence is not proportional.

 

Edited by Nev, 11 September 2017 - 08:36 AM.

[Chris P Duck]

No I disagree. "Luck" should not come into the penalty. If you open a door without looking the fine should be the same regardless of a cyclist choosing to plow into it or not. Doing 36 in a 30 should be a set penalty regardless of a drugs riddled moron stumbling out in front of your car or not. The penalty should reflect what you chose to do, not the ensuing chain of events over which you had no control. Using your logic Nev if I shoot at someone but miss should I get off scott free because I didn't hurt anyone?

Edited by Chris P Duck, 11 September 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Nev]

Using your logic Nev if I shoot at someone but miss should I get off scott free because I didn't hurt anyone?

 

Intention to deliberately hurt someone/something should clearly be punished. I am not saying that at all, what-so-ever.

 

However, killing someone through negligence (ie opening a door onto a moving cyclist, and running over him (partly) becuase you are too drunk to avoid him) should be punished - severely IMO.  

Edited by Nev, 11 September 2017 - 08:41 AM.

[slindborg]

I guess it depends on the factors at hand, e.g. IF the van driver was sober and bang on his reactions, would the same net outcome have happend?

So lets say the van was close enough that even being on the brakes the nano second the door hit the cyclist, the cyclist would have still died?

Was the cyclist lying on the floor in agony and then the van pitched up and ran him over?

 

If the former, then that is sh*t luck and imho the "fault" errs to the taxi customer, and probably some to the cyclist.

If the later, then you could argue that the van driver should be in prison, although hugely likely for not preventing the outcome as opposed to casuing it.

 

 

As for "we dont hate motorcyclists as much... yes I fcuking do!!!! "ohh cars never see us" "Ohh cars pull out on us"... stop sitting in my 3/4 blind spot then you fcuking thundercunts, stop "filtering" at 60mph down nose to tail stationary traffic, etc etc ad nauseum

[jonnyboy]

Are you not supposed to pass traffic with enough gap to ensure an opening door doesnt hit you?

[C8RKH]

Are you not supposed to pass traffic with enough gap to ensure an opening door doesnt hit you?

 

Yes you are!  However quite "how" you would do that whilst undertaking a parked car/taxi, or a bus or lorry turning left is beyond me.

 

There is an element here of common sense on the part of the cyclist that is needed to be enforced, and an element of responsibility on drivers to realise that a two tonne block of metal and plastic will kill if used inappropriately.

 

Re the drug user example above, that is one reason why I now have a dashcam. And to be honest, i would use it to sue the sh*t out of the druggies estate (even if they had nothing) for causing an accident and for the associated mental torture that their selfish twatish actions had caused me.  I'd also use it to do the same to sue an injured cyclist "IF" I it could be shown that they had been cycling in a reckless manner.  It is time for the law to catch up.

 

I disagree re taxing cyclists and compulsory insurance - just think it is a crap argument really and how the hell would you enforce it?  Jeez, there are enough car/can drivers who drive with uninsured and un-taxed cars as it is, this would just be unworkable on cyclists.  However, they should be held to account - so, if they jump a red light, ride on the pavement etc and get caught then an immediate fine of say £60 to be paid on the spot - cash or card.  If they have neither then their bike is confiscated there and then. Held for 30 days for the fine to be paid, if not, the bike is sold/auctioned off to pay the fine and any surplus cash retained either into Police budget or the victims fund.  I tell you, if this happens a few times, the word would get around and we'd see more responsible cycling and it would be fairly easy for the Police or Traffic Wardens to enforce.

Edited by C8RKH, 11 September 2017 - 10:57 AM.

[fiveoclock]

How are you going good to hold them to account if they and their bike remain unrecognisable and untraceable? This is why insurance and registration marks are needed. Like a lot of people in life cyclists have an "I'm entitled' view without wanting to put in what is required to get that entitlement.

Edited by fiveoclock, 11 September 2017 - 12:52 PM.

[C8RKH]

I was hoping that enough of them would be caught in the act - they have started specific patrols in London with cops waiting on the other side of lights etc to nab them when they break the law.  Come on, registration plates on bikes just is not going to work. I get the sentiments, it's the practicability of it. Maybe tattoo a bar code to their foreheads that can be read by a roadside scanner?

[Gadget2]

I now have front and rear cameras on all my vehicles. Have only used the footage once when a Mercedes driver came up behind me very quickly in a 30 zone (I was doing 29) started flashing his lights and giving me obscene hand signals for me to 'hurry up', then as we came out of the 30 zone I used the performance of my supercharged VX to accelerate to the limit of 60 mph. this gave me a fair distance between us.

Following this he then passed me (estimate approx 80-85) then quickly slowed down until I came up behind him, then proceeded to brake-test me down to 30 mph.

After another gesture from him he then disappeared into the distance.

 

My footage from both cameras was passed to the authorities, but I have had no feedback.

 

Not only that but his indicators did not work when he passed me!

[The Knobs]

Why was cyclist anywhere near an opening door, highway code rule 67? So if he had fallen off by hitting a parked car and fell into the path of a driver, that constitutes a prison sentance for driver?

[Nev]

It wasn't clear in the R4 article, but I got the feeling the cyclist was overtaking legally on the outside of the cab.

[Ormes]

Cyclists get a lot of bad press... and there is fcuking good reason for it.

 

A lot will deliberately ride in an inconsiderate manner (from the perspective of both drivers and pedestrians), as cyclists believe it is their right / no law against it.

 

There is absolutely no law against me not saying please or thank you, or not holding the door open for somebody who is walking behind me, but it's just plain obnoxious.

 

Tooted somebody the other day for riding on a road that runs in parallel to a mixed pedestrian/cycle way, we then approached a set of temporary lights on red, managing traffic around a 200 meter single lane.

 

Cyclist comes up behind me.

 

Cyclist - "Was I getting in your way?"

Me - "There's a cycle lane just there, can you see it?"

Cyclist - "I don't have to use it!"

Me - "Well as long as you're alright Jack"

Cyclist - "You are in a car you tw@t" (not really sure what that was meant to mean.)

 

Anyway, lights went green, I make progress up the road, and look in my rear view mirror has he forces a line of traffic to follow him up the 200 meter single track at 10mph when he could have just used the fcuking cycle lane.

[casino]

Narrow road in Greenwich. Bin lorry comes down the hill and meets cyclist coming in the opposite direction, at narrow section. Took near ok 40 mins for the cyclist to back down and ride round the lorry. Meanwhile traffic backed up in both directions.