33 replies to this topic

[ditonics]

Is anyone running a tubby with an oil cooler. If so where did you mount it. Did you remove the oil to water cooler. Did it make a big difference. I have a 450ish engine in the build stage and I know the car runs on the upper end of temperature limits on track with the 300ish hp lump in it. Thanks

[Johnboyhgt]

temp as in coolant upper limits ? or oil ?

[ditonics]

Water, no means to measure oil on current engine. Will fit a temp gauge on next engine.

[Nev]

JoshUXB has an extra oil cooler. He doesn't come on here much any more, but I'll mention it to him when I talk to him next.

 

[ditonics]

I was thinking one in the passager side ear and lovres in the arch. Not sure where to have the intake if I go that route. I can see my boot vanishing but then that's hot air going into the engine which I want to avoid.

Edited by ditonics, 29 September 2017 - 05:06 PM.

[Nev]

I was thinking one in the passager side ear and lovres in the arch.

 

That's where I'd put one.  

[Captain Vimes]

Have you had a look at the Europa build by Hoffmans? They have a massive oil cooler rad and fan where the boot is. Might also be worth considering a gearbox oil cooler? http://www.hofmanns....ropa-build-blog

Edited by Captain Vimes, 29 September 2017 - 09:45 PM.

[The Batman]

i would first monitor the oil temps to see if there is a potential issue first. might save you money...

[Nev]

i would first monitor the oil temps to see if there is a potential issue first. might save you money...

 

I agree. Adding an oil cooler = adding weight (in the rear of the car where you don't want it), adding complexity, adding leak/fire risk. Also you have to ensure that the rad and pipework can drain into the sump. Also your oil capacity (and cost) will rise quite a bit. All in all it's only something to do if actually warranted IMO.

 

Even if oil gets to 150 degrees briefly it will be ok, so long as it doesn't start creeping past the seals too badly. The key with oil is to change it very often (which I am sure you know) rather than buying stupidly expensive xxx branded stuff and leaving it in for 20000 miles!

 

I change mine every 1000 to 1500 miles for instance, using 50 grade in winter and 60 grade in summer as it's a high stress application (with possible overheating, loads of soot and potential for fuel dilution/contamination due to over-safe mapping).

Edited by Nev, 29 September 2017 - 10:38 PM.

[ditonics]

Yeah seen the Hoffman's build, it's great but complicated. As for oil temp, I will be adding a gauge for temp and pressure, just need to figure out were to put the sensors. And yeah I change oil frequently guys. Cars done about 3000-4000 mile in my care and had 2 oil changes. Reading this http://www.vx220.org...ooling-circuit/ I wonder about an aux pump up front and removing the OEM aux pump on a tubby. As a side note I love the idea of using the TB coolant to cool the waste gate in that thread.

[Nev]

Another simple solution is to take the rear floorpan off, not only will your oil be cooler, but the whole engine bay will be far cooler too (once the car is moving). Simple but not popular for some reason, even though it also lightens the car by 6kg on the rear. People say it affects the aero, but I think it has negligable effect, perhaps parasitically robbing you of 10 or 20 HP at 120 leptons. Anyway I seem to be able to rattle along at speeds you are aware of without the floorpan, and my VX is way more stable and planted at high speed now than when I first bought it.

 

Also, not having the floorpan on the car permanently makes fixing it 20 minutes faster every time!! LOL

 

 

 

Edited by Nev, 29 September 2017 - 11:33 PM.

[The Batman]

If you are leaving the rear undertray off you have to have bumper cut outs or the air will make its own cut outs

[scw02102]

You can just buy oil that doesnt breakdown at high temps, will be much cheaper.

Find a decent racing oil speak to Opie oils, I dont have a oil cooler in my track car (MX5) but was just told to use a high temp oil and I just keep an eye on the oil temp with a dedicated gauge. 

[tibby]

Another simple solution is to take the rear floorpan off, not only will your oil be cooler, but the whole engine bay will be far cooler too (once the car is moving). Simple but not popular for some reason, even though it also lightens the car by 6kg on the rear. People say it affects the aero, but I think it has negligable effect, perhaps parasitically robbing you of 10 or 20 HP at 120 leptons. Anyway I seem to be able to rattle along at speeds you are aware of without the floorpan, and my VX is way more stable and planted at high speed now than when I first bought it.
 
Also, not having the floorpan on the car permanently makes fixing it 20 minutes faster every time!! LOL

 
+1
 
Gertje made me a half undertray for the summer (the big one, cutted just behind the 3th screw) Also improves gearshifting on very hot days.
 
For best stability also leave the back piece off when using no big undertray
 
If you look underneath a Lotus Europa , they've also got NO undertrays!



 
Only downside, you're engine bay is getting a lot faster dirty. But hey, i love to clean my car

Edited by tibby, 30 September 2017 - 05:53 PM.

[Nev]

Interesting, I didn't realise the Europas don't have rear floor pans.

 

Didn't you sell your VX Tibby?

[tibby]

Maybe you can see pictures in this link.

Manus , the Dutch guy, has a Europa . Maybe he can give more info about it????????

 

 

http://www.google.nl...506883644038626 Wanted to sell it a few years ago, but performance/costsprice other cars, nothing can beat my little speedter. I'll never sell it. It's not perfect but i really love it (AND hate it sometimes) EVERYTIME it will bring a smile on my face when driving it!   and beating stupidly expensive sportscars

 

[tibby]

Found it on Deroure:
 
Only undertray is the piece underneath the gastank.

[Mattias]

Yeah seen the Hoffman's build, it's great but complicated. As for oil temp, I will be adding a gauge for temp and pressure, just need to figure out were to put the sensors. And yeah I change oil frequently guys. Cars done about 3000-4000 mile in my care and had 2 oil changes. Reading this http://www.vx220.org...ooling-circuit/ I wonder about an aux pump up front and removing the OEM aux pump on a tubby. As a side note I love the idea of using the TB coolant to cool the waste gate in that thread.

 

Hi,

 

I have to make an update in that thread soon as my cooling system is done and tested with very good result.

 

Some spoilers, I have 400-450hp and the goal has been to be able to push lap after lap...

 

On colder days (15-20C) my temps won't go past 90C at the thermostat. In a very warm day I got it up to 106C.

Oil thermostat opens at 107C and is fully open at 127C, as soon as my oil temp hits 107-110C it just holds that level.

My oem cooler is removed to aid engine cooling and I have a setrab cooler in the left ear.

 

The pump in the front is removed since it might cause some reversion etc. And I don't like the davies craig pumps as they are crap compared to pierburg oem pumps.

 

I have removed the impeller on the mechanical pump and only run an electrical pump.

 

However my setup kind of needs a stand alone ECU and some safety features to monitor that the pump is working.

 

It's also good to know that the root cause for lack of cooling is probably the CC prerad covering the engine rad, oil cooler and heater circuit. So if you plan to keep the oem ECU you could try a different route that was my backup solution: This plan was to modify the front clam and add a rad in each front wheelhouse and louvers to let the air out. These could then be used either for the CC or if you already have the pro alloy CC you can add a by-pass valve for the heater matrix and route that circuit to the added radiators when needed. You should also add a pump to cool the turbo.

[ditonics]

Yeah seen the Hoffman's build, it's great but complicated. As for oil temp, I will be adding a gauge for temp and pressure, just need to figure out were to put the sensors. And yeah I change oil frequently guys. Cars done about 3000-4000 mile in my care and had 2 oil changes. Reading this http://www.vx220.org...ooling-circuit/ I wonder about an aux pump up front and removing the OEM aux pump on a tubby. As a side note I love the idea of using the TB coolant to cool the waste gate in that thread.

  Hi,   I have to make an update in that thread soon as my cooling system is done and tested with very good result.   Some spoilers, I have 400-450hp and the goal has been to be able to push lap after lap...   On colder days (15-20C) my temps won't go past 90C at the thermostat. In a very warm day I got it up to 106C. Oil thermostat opens at 107C and is fully open at 127C, as soon as my oil temp hits 107-110C it just holds that level. My oem cooler is removed to aid engine cooling and I have a setrab cooler in the left ear.   The pump in the front is removed since it might cause some reversion etc. And I don't like the davies craig pumps as they are crap compared to pierburg oem pumps.   I have removed the impeller on the mechanical pump and only run an electrical pump.   However my setup kind of needs a stand alone ECU and some safety features to monitor that the pump is working.   It's also good to know that the root cause for lack of cooling is probably the CC prerad covering the engine rad, oil cooler and heater circuit. So if you plan to keep the oem ECU you could try a different route that was my backup solution: This plan was to modify the front clam and add a rad in each front wheelhouse and louvers to let the air out. These could then be used either for the CC or if you already have the pro alloy CC you can add a by-pass valve for the heater matrix and route that circuit to the added radiators when needed. You should also add a pump to cool the turbo.

I'll be running an aftermarket ECU so I might well be copying you to some extent. Are you running a Volvo electric water pump now? And do you have an aux pump just for the turbo on shut down?

[Mattias]

I run a pierburg CWA400 that is used by Volvo and BMW, the BMW variant has simple hose connections.