46 replies to this topic

[Johnboyhgt]

Blooming phone. As above Chris would have seen that for sure. Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[Spitfire Engineering]

 

 

Is there two types of toe links on the car ?

  Yes, on the Elise and variants the ones at the back are usually called toe links and the ones at the front are called steering rack arms. They both serve the same function but the front pair are additionally controlled by the steering rack and associated geometry.   They both have a barrage of names of course, steering links, control rods, control arms etc  

Lol, I mean left to right ( on the rear )

 

 

I did wonder but it was a sensible question  

They should be identical, only the subframe brackets are different insomuch as they are mirrored.

Once fitted of course it is unlikely they will be exactly the same length after a geo, though if they are out by more than 3-4mm it would be worth investigating why, a bent upright or wishbone would be my first check.

 

Also, sometimes uprights are replaced with the other type, tapered/recessed so the outer fittings will be different though we can do this and have done several times if you let us know, there is no charge for this, one advantage of building kits to order.

 

Worth pointing out that there is no effective structural difference between the two uprights and they can be swapped without issue, it is the same casting (CDP 2) with just different machining of the toe link fixing point.

 

Not so with the joints though, with an OE setup the tapered M12 joints are ultimately stronger of course but this is not always the case, ironically, with aftermarket kits.  Debatably kits which use an M10 on the tapered uprights are no stronger and probably weaker than OE tapered joints. For this reason our tapered kits are M12 and have been for about 7 years.

 

If the M12 option for the recessed upright is requested this is in fact actually slightly stronger than the tapered setup as it has the advantage of a mechanical interference unlike the tapered which relies on the bolt in shear. Though as both kits are M12 you are looking at a pretty major impact and the toe links will be the last of your worries  

 

[Spitfire Engineering]

Blooming phone. As above Chris would have seen that for sure. Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

Is this Chris at Jon's?

[Johnboyhgt]

Yep Chris at Jon's would have seen the error for sure. Important thing is that it has been found before anything bad happened to Neil. Let's get it put right and while about it get the old torque wrench round all the bolts. Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[Spitfire Engineering]

Yep Chris at Jon's would have seen the error for sure. Important thing is that it has been found before anything bad happened to Neil. Let's get it put right and while about it get the old torque wrench round all the bolts. Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

OK, I wasn't sure it was the same Chris.

Agreed, it's unthinkable he would have missed this.

 

[chris_uk]

I think since i have been mentioned it only best to clarify some things.. 

 

When i swapped Neils engine, i did so by removing the entire hub assembly complete.. by this i mean i only removed the wishbone bolts and the inner toe link bolt and slid it off as a complete unit, i suspect Lee would of done the same.

 

As far as i understand, Neil had a leaking caliper nipple as the threads were a total mess, he had someone try sort that for him which resulted in them busting the threads to one of the caliper bolts, (the bottom sliding bolt i think).. so they then had to remove the hub to fix this, at that time they would of removed the outer toe link joint to take it off the car and chances are that little oem spacer was stuck inside the recess in the hub, they usually rust themselves solid in there and if you didnt know that you would just think it was part  of the hub.. if they have been bashing the hub about whilst trying to fix their mistake its not unlikely that the spacer has dislodged and fallen out and they never even noticed.. they have gone to put it all back together and bolted it up.. not knowing that they are missing that little oem spacer.

 

[Spitfire Engineering]

I think since i have been mentioned it only best to clarify some things.. 

 

When i swapped Neils engine, i did so by removing the entire hub assembly complete.. by this i mean i only removed the wishbone bolts and the inner toe link bolt and slid it off as a complete unit, i suspect Lee would of done the same.

 

As far as i understand, Neil had a leaking caliper nipple as the threads were a total mess, he had someone try sort that for him which resulted in them busting the threads to one of the caliper bolts, (the bottom sliding bolt i think).. so they then had to remove the hub to fix this, at that time they would of removed the outer toe link joint to take it off the car and chances are that little oem spacer was stuck inside the recess in the hub, they usually rust themselves solid in there and if you didnt know that you would just think it was part  of the hub.. if they have been bashing the hub about whilst trying to fix their mistake its not unlikely that the spacer has dislodged and fallen out and they never even noticed.. they have gone to put it all back together and bolted it up.. not knowing that they are missing that little oem spacer.

 

 

 

Thanks Chris

That only makes it more curious as to why the OE spacers were still present on the car after the OE toe links were removed and the aftermarket kit fitted?

It would not be possible to fit any aftermarket kit (that I am aware of) correctly with any of the OE components still in place. This is true for both upright types.

That only leaves the possibility that: -

A. it really was fitted incorrectly in the first place or

B. The correct components were lost at some point and the OE bits used to patch it up.

 

The reason why I'm chasing is so as to follow the aviation model, It doesn't really matter who it was but if we can discover what went wrong and why then we have the opportunity, through education, to stop it happening again to another car as next time the owner may not be so lucky.