57 replies to this topic

[Rosssco]

Like a summary of the millionpage b207 thread.

 

That thread still gives me slight nausea trying to navigate it  

[TFD]

Time for a proper "how to" B207 conversion I guess.

[Rosssco]

Time for a proper "how to" B207 conversion I guess.

  I will be documenting stuff, but Exmantaa's original thread covered most things: http://www.vx220.org...20-lsj-project/

[Exmantaa]

I immediately ran to my B207 yesterday as I like this mod a lot. Looks exactly like the picture in Haggi961's email. The hole on the left side is in the aluminium housing. The one on the right side has a thick walled (like 5 mm) steel tube in it. The B207 oil cooler has the two o-rings and it just bolts to that oil filter housing.

 

Ehmmm.... Like you said; "The hole on the left side is in the aluminium housing. The one on the right side has a thick walled (like 5 mm) steel tube in it"  And you will have 2 threades bolt holes there. (That's where that adapter plate screws onto...)

 

In the pic from Haggi those connections are drilled and tapped straight into a closed 2.2 or 2.4 block. Think Jan was the first to make this conversion and the original build pics are somewhere on the Dutch Speedsterforum.

You need to remove the steel tube and block the flow internally (with that spring loaded thingy inside the Z22SE filter housing). And use the oil hose + block side exit from a Z22SE.

 

(Will look for the Dutch thread pics)

[Exmantaa]

Wow, back to 2013; "Hitman build"...

 

https://www.speedste...=5930&start=120

 

 

 

[alexb]

What's the problem, besides the same plumbing issues when using the OEM Saab oil cooler, with tapping these holes and running pipes to an external cooler? You run into problems when you block the hole with the steel tube and use it for the oil pressure sensor, but if you just tap (it's a 14 mm hole on the alu side and 13 mm on the steel side) and use as intended, you do exactly the same as when using the adapter plate, don't you? I plan to use a higher capacity oil cooler. Something like a good sized Mocal laminova.

[Exmantaa]

The steel tube is the pressurized oil (to the cooler), the other is then return and into oil filter & block. so that works.

But my concern would be the press fit of that steel tube in the alu..., So therefore an adapter plate with o-rings that is bolted onto the block there.

[Rosssco]

So, cam selection.

 

Both NA and LSJ cams are virtually the same with regards to lift and duration, but with slightly different timings, resulting in:

 

NA cams - preferred for low - mid range torque

LSJ cams - slightly less low range torque, but improved mid - upper range torque (and subsequently power)

 

NA cams do not have a hex ancillary drive (because of a shorter exhaust cam), so cannot be used to drive a cam sensor, vaccum pump etc. but the LSJ cams can. When using the Saab head and cam cover, NA cams require an end plug and blanking cap on the exhaust side.

 

LSJ cams are the same length and have a hex ancillary drive. These only need a blanking plate (or fit one of the ancillary drives, such as a vacuum pump) to be usable.

Edited by Rosssco, 18 February 2018 - 01:36 PM.

[alexb]

With regards to the cams, the Saab sprockets are not keyed, so you can set the timing to whatever you want. You can use keyed Z22SE sprockets, which allow for something like 3 degrees of variation. Which means you can set the timing within a very small window. Setting the timing right using the non-keyed sprockets is a bit of a hassle

[Exmantaa]

Z22SE cams and the LSJ cams ARE the exact the same profile, although with different timing like you said.

Besides the length difference, the only difference is in the timing of the gear sprocket fixation, as the sprocket wheels of the LSJ and the Z22SE are the exact same part numbers.

 

(I wanted to try this timing difference out in a bog stock Z22SE SC st2, but it never happened.)

 

 

[Rosssco]

So, the effective difference is just the angle of the chain sprocket locator / keyway in relation to the cam lobes.. That makes sense. The NA sprockets have timing markings on them (making it difficult to get it wrong, he says..) where are the B207 sprockets didn't seem to have any obvious timing markings (it did have coloured chain links however..)

[Exmantaa]

Nope, the Saab sprockets are keyless and supposed to be used with special cam lobe locaters/fixers during the installation.

But perfect if you want to time your aftermarket cams perfect to spec.

 

OEM Z22SE or LSJ cams + standard keyed sprockets => just time according the manual and coloured links.

 

 

[Exmantaa]

This was way back; direct comparison of my stock 2.0 LSJ engine (3.1 pulley + vxt muffler) against Smileys Stage 2 Z22. This is wheel power (and had a totally untuned bottom end), but you see the difference in peak torque rpm:

 

 

 

 

[Rosssco]

Aye, I was looking at that previous graph. I suppose if you'd stuck a 3.1" pulley on the Z22, it would have produced similar overall power / torque figures (assuming it didn't fail..) The LSJ is doing not bad considering its ~200cc and 0.5 compression ratios down.. Ps. - Is that uncorrected wheel torque, and should it also be correct using a 16-17% factor?

Edited by Rosssco, 18 February 2018 - 06:24 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Yep, all measured at the wheels, but all dyno's read different. Best used as a tuning tool to compare things, not absolute numbers.

 

Your correct though tat a Z22SE should yield similar mumbers with a 3.1 pulley. (as the SC will shove the same amout of air into the engine), just a matter how long the stock Z22 rods will hold that...

 

 

[Rosssco]

Should I talk about running in period for a new Saab engine, or should I start a new thread..? This whole 1,000 mile thing seems old school..

[Rosssco]

So to update my spec:

 

Standard 2.0L B207 9.5:1 Compression - decided to just stick with the Saab head gasket and I will be running a 3.0" pulley try and optimise ign timing. Ported exhaust ports - Done (first attempt, just port matched to the gasket and kept away from the valves) Balancer delete - Done (hope I've knocked the bearings back the right amount - 7.5-8mm) Light flywheel with C20LET clutch (fitted with new OEM bolts) Standard NA cams - I had these already, and I wanted to use my Z22YH plastic cam cover. Should give me a good road engine 3.0" M62 Pulley  VXR blue injectors and uprated pump - still need to buy uprated pump Piper ex. manifold  - removed and inspected. Seems to be in good condition, no sign of weld damage or deformation. Been rubbing a little on the standard heatshield, so that will be modified 2.5" Exhaust (I think I'd like a Piper backbox if I can find one..)

 

​Also bought a used PLX wideband sensor from Nick. Planning to get a bung welded in not long before my cat. 

 

​Ps.- and using the Saab oil cooler modified to fit.

Edited by Rosssco, 30 March 2018 - 02:34 PM.

[Adventure]

Pictures with fitted SAAB oil-cooer in the car would be nice.  I have not decided if I will go that way as well. Curious on how narrow it will be.

[Rosssco]

Pictures with fitted SAAB oil-cooer in the car would be nice.  I have not decided if I will go that way as well. Curious on how narrow it will be.

  Yep, I will post up pics of what is required to make it fit once done.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Pictures with fitted SAAB oil-cooer in the car would be nice.  I have not decided if I will go that way as well. Curious on how narrow it will be.

IVE got the Saab oil cooler only issue is the re-routing of the water pipes to accommodate it