21 replies to this topic

[Steve.i.am]

I have a set of spitfire toe links to go onto my car. Thinking of doing it myself and re-setting the toe myself using something like this:

 

https://wiki.seloc.o...Rig_(Home_Made)

 

Plan is measure it all before, then swap toe links and reset it. 

 

 

Bad idea? Or is there a better DIY method than this one?

 

[SteveA]

Helps if you have a very flat floor but as long as you measure it before and after in exactly the same place and account for the added height caused by jacking (by bouncing on the suspension or driving up a few curbs) it should be pretty accurate.

[fiveoclock]

You'll need a flat floor and use fishing line not string

[Zoobeef]

I do mine with fishing line and an engineers ruler.

I can adjust without jacking up but push it back and forth to get rid of any tension in the tyres.

[Steve.i.am]

I see thanks. My garage has a nice flat floor but sadly not enough room to work around the car. My drive is 'fairly' flat, but Probably not flat enough.

Hmm.

[fezzasus]

I did it on the drive when I changed my toe links. Didn't have any issue as I was only setting relative toe rather than absolute (simply mirroring what was there originally)

[Ali87]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[james_ly]

I might get lynched for this... but kwikfit have hunter alignment rigs, they'll do it for £40 or so.

[Rosssco]

I might get lynched for this... but kwikfit have hunter alignment rigs, they'll do it for £40 or so.

Yeah, but that will just be toe adjustment, not camber

[james_ly]

 

I might get lynched for this... but kwikfit have hunter alignment rigs, they'll do it for £40 or so.

Yeah, but that will just be toe adjustment, not camber

 

 

Correct. But if all he wants is to keep the car as it was before teh new toe links... all that's needed.
 

[Steve.i.am]

I might get lynched for this... but kwikfit have hunter alignment rigs, they'll do it for £40 or so.

Yeah, but that will just be toe adjustment, not camber

 
Correct. But if all he wants is to keep the car as it was before teh new toe links... all that's needed.

True - and thanks for the idea.

[Nev]

It's easy, rewarding and cheap to DIY. And once you experiment you can improve the geo to suit your suspension modifications (height usually), driving style, tyres, road surface etc etc.

Edited by Nev, 19 July 2018 - 07:11 PM.

[jonnyboy]

I might get lynched for this... but kwikfit have hunter alignment rigs, they'll do it for £40 or so.

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with taking it to somewhere with a Hunter. They are amazing machines and far far more accurate than you'll get stringing up. Lotus cars are pretty forgiving actually the only giveaway at times can be wonky steering wheels. 

 

My old Cayman was only happy after a trip to a Hunter they are extremely sensitive to even the slightest issue with the geo (cam adjustments forever gets knocked out) . 

 

The machines you'll see at Quick fit are £80,000 and very sophisticated. They include accommodating for runout on wheels which your home geo can never cope with. They are very easy to use so quite literally the operatives can't get it wrong. 

[aquilaproejct]

Even the most expensive machine is completely dependent on how the operator sets it up. Slightly different positions of the heads can create gross changes in you values. Roll a car on and off and you get a different measure. Toe is always particular sensitive due to small angles. Camber is less so. I consider most machines to be random number generator. Driving the car is often the only proof that the machine has produced a good result.

[ukcat]

just wondering if anyone knows how the lazer (hunter) machines are set up with regards to the chassis i.e how do they get the unitial reference ti ensure they are aligned paralkekk with the vehicle center line

[aquilaproejct]

No. No wheel alignment system that I have worked with works off a vehicle centerlink (including true laser based non contact oem production systems). The use the data from all four wheels to create the required adjustments to meet the toe settings and thrust angles required. Theoretically this could result in a significant crab angle for down the road. Surprisingly you can feel quite small crab angles based on your body position in the seat.

[Nev]

It's all very well setting a 15 year old car up on a machine to some pre described spec, but it simply doesn't take into account loads of "real world" things that will offset that geo a LOT as soon as you're moving.

 

Off the top of my head things a machine set geo does not accommodate for:

 

1. Tired bushes that deform badly as soon as you load when cornering.

2. A tired rear subframe that is known to flex around a lot (1 to 2 ") - remember your rear wishbones are partly connected to this.

3. Different/wider wheels + tyres that create more grip, and hence more than intended roll and more strain to deflect 2+ dozen bushes and ball joints + links.

4. Different ARBs everyone seems to have. I've recently discovered how detrimental my "uprated" one is for instance.

5. Ride height differences (thus meaning the onset of bump curve is more acute).

6. Where you drive, lots of fast straightish stuff, sweeping long curves or loads of tight bends... all require a diff setup.

 

These just some of the things why setting your car to a fixed formula isn't as good as actually experimenting. As I have found, the "fast road" setup is not as fast as my own setup. I've even tried asymmetric geometry (where the O/S is deliberately different to the N/s) - the reason being that on B-roads you need to account for the N/s wheel regularly running in gutters that slope away strongly, hence meaning you ideally need more positive camber on the front N/S wheel and possibly a different ride height on that corner to ensure super fast right hand turn in (to avoid hitting the curb you might be inches away from at many leptons). I doubt many of the monkeys at Kwikfuck ever thought of that.

 

HTH.

Edited by Nev, 20 July 2018 - 03:44 PM.

[turbo boy]

Kind of relevant to this thread - I recently found out that Kwik Fit offer 2 years worth of alignment for a fixed fee of £130. I think it’s based on 4 checks a year. I managed to get it for £120.

I was previously paying £60 a time and my Mondeo ST (like Jonny boys Porsche) seems to need adjustment frequently. It seems like a good deal to me? 🤔

Jon

[Steve.i.am]

Well I've had a go at just trying to measure the existing toe front & rear with what I had to hand in the garage.

4 axle stands, with fishing line running front to back down each side of the car with old brake pads tied on each end providing the tension. I kept the distance between the lines same front and back then tried to get them parallel with the car by using distances from each wheel centre cap.
 

 

 

Measuring the toe I got 1.5mm toe IN on each rear wheel and overall 2mm toe IN on the front.

 

Looking at some GEO specs, the rear looks as expected but most GEOs from what I've seen are zero toe on the front or very slightly toe out.

 

Anyway, just me mucking about really and may have got it wrong. Assuming I haven't, I think I can replicate the setup but I know my drive aint flat.

[SteveA]

Get some chalk and mark where your wheels are before you start so you can get it pretty much in the same place after.