56 replies to this topic

[PaulCP]

 

For every muppet like Trump there is another muppet who can't see past a Duracell....

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Batteries are not the answer - Cobalt, short life, not environmentally friendly to dispose of, produce and charge

 

I've been trying to educate our local planners of this, unsuccessfully, who believe that allowing a battery storage back up power plant on rural land, which will be charged from power stations, equates to promoting “green” energy. The planning committee is made up of total bell ends

Edited by PaulCP, 08 February 2020 - 08:42 PM.

[coldel]

Yes which is why its important to distinguish between Green and Greener - nothing is perfectly Green but it is an improvement which is what we should be striving for. I think we have all been around long enough to see how the present is not the future, I am no expert by any means but a casual reading on the subject for example cobalt doesn't appear to be the future with companies like Panasonic already stating they are developing non cobalt batteries etc. I wouldnt shut down battery power as an option just because the tech right now doesn't appear suitable, in the same way you wouldnt shut down hydrogen because right now the tech isnt suitable.  

 

For me this isn't about X is better than Y it's not a competition, its about X and Y being better than inefficiently burning fossil fuels like we used to when we lived in caves. 

[FLD]

I would pour methanol on my hand.  I wouldn't pour ammonia on my hand!  Ammonia is far too reactive to be viable IMO.

 
converting pure CO2 to methanol , plus some hydrogen? I know Iceland has a geothermal based plant doing it

 

A fuel cell is a gateway that can go both ways (Fnaaar).  Apply CO2 and water to a fuel cell with electricity and you can make methanol.  Its very inefficient at the moment though.
 
Interesting battery discussion but a bit behind the times.  I've friends who work in this area and there are a few new things in the pipeline.

[coldel]

 

 

I would pour methanol on my hand.  I wouldn't pour ammonia on my hand!  Ammonia is far too reactive to be viable IMO.

 
converting pure CO2 to methanol , plus some hydrogen? I know Iceland has a geothermal based plant doing it

 

 

A fuel cell is a gateway that can go both ways (Fnaaar).  Apply CO2 and water to a fuel cell with electricity and you can make methanol.  Its very inefficient at the moment though.
 
Interesting battery discussion but a bit behind the times.  I've friends who work in this area and there are a few new things in the pipeline.

 

 

Yes Battery tech is flying along, a friend of mine is in renewables and updates me on all the work going on and its a million miles away from what we are seeing at the moment. It really is fascinating stuff learning about how we are trying to take energy provision into the 21st century.

[Jetpilot]

I dont know if its just relevant and at the front of my mind because of the chats on ice forums, but just about every ad i see at the moment is, ev this, hybrid that, i havent seen an ad for a car i think ohh i like that for ages and more worryingly, nothing in the pipeline, well bar exotica i just cant or will never be able to afford.

 

I would also make the assumption that anything currently half interesting in the ice world will only increase in value in the coming years, or do people see that differently?

[coldel]

I agree, the fun has been stripped out of car ownership aside from out of reach supercars. The market is all about SUVs for older people and cheap to run hatches for younger people if I were to simplify it. Unfortunately the people that populate this forum and many other car forums are a minority compared to the majority that just seem happy to trope about in a car getting from A to B. 

[Jetpilot]

Whilst it may not be everybodys bag, being an "ex/recovering" jdm fan, apart from forums/social media i have not seen anything on the new Supra for example, no adverts, no billboards, not a single thing. Seems strange to me to resurrect a cult iconic car without any mainstream marketing, even the GT86 got some tv airtime, if i remember correctly some of the advert was banned because it portrayed spirited (read having fun) driving!!!

 

Whilst sadly for me the Supra is/was a damp squib, it is the only realistically affordable car to have been offered recently (maybe see below) and again for me the prospect was very palatable, just didnt float my boat. 

 

A110 and 4C other examples, i cant remember anything regarding mainstream marketing??

 

Anyway, all off topic but perhaps confirms the rational behind the thread.

Edited by Jetpilot, 13 February 2020 - 04:41 PM.

[casino]

I agree, the fun has been stripped out of car ownership aside from out of reach supercars. The market is all about SUVs for older people and cheap to run hatches for younger people if I were to simplify it. Unfortunately the people that populate this forum and many other car forums are a minority compared to the majority that just seem happy to trope about in a car getting from A to B. 

 That’s pretty well bang on. 

Bland cars that insulate the occupants against the effort of getting from one place to another. That’s why cars all look the same. Take the badges off and you’d be hard pressed to know who made them. 
 

[FLD]

Guys, you see bland?  Some see opportunity.  Crawl out of your pit of self-fulfilling misery, remove finger from bum hole (only if you have to) and mess with it (the car).  It won't take long for high discharge rate batteries and high torque motors to start doing the rounds.  You just need to build the car you want.  There will be good cars that drive well; they'll just need some optimisation.

[coldel]

I got no problem admitting EV gives so much more power and performance on high end models, but for me its not about that - its about the theatre and mechanical engagement with the driving experience. Even if it was a viable option I wouldn't put an electric motor in a VX for instance. The visceral, the smell, its all part and parcel of the experience. Would I prefer to drive a Ferrari 328 or a Tesla roadster? The experience I seek for driving pleasure is not about out and out performance, its the experience.

 

Which is why I struggle a bit, I am on board with green living totally, EVs are a route of least friction right now to move away from fossil burning vehicles, but the experience of driving an EV, even a fast one, is mute and unfulfilling, for me they are for getting from A-B the performance of some of them is simply a by product.

[slindborg]

Guys, you see bland?  Some see opportunity.  Crawl out of your pit of self-fulfilling misery, remove finger from bum hole (only if you have to) and mess with it (the car).  It won't take long for high discharge rate batteries and high torque motors to start doing the rounds.  You just need to build the car you want.  There will be good cars that drive well; they'll just need some optimisation.

 

Grown up RC cars

I know AmberJack were doing upgrade packs for Prius'ss's's's'ssssiiii around 10 years ago

 

 

Been looking at (shame) an SUV as we will need to ferry around 5 near adult sized people and an estate/big normal car is off the cards for some unholy reason. There is literally no point comparing them on anything other than cost, colour, boot size and is the inside ok.

Stuff like infotainment/nav is all the bastard same (because it has to be), MPG is all the same, handling is the same (give or take) and so on. Its great and depressing all at the same time. Welcome to appliance motoring.

[FLD]

Is that conditioning?  Is the noise a car makes just programmed in from historic events eg everyone lusts after a big V8 which sounds a certain way? 

 

maybe the experience will change to something new.  Its all about what you take from it.  The next generation my get off on the hum of electric and be miffed when that gets replaced.

 

The whole thing is quite interesting

[coldel]

Why do people like steam trains? Why do they like to ride across hills and open land on horses instead of driving? Why do some people hike, or run? The sound, smell, shudder, vocals, everything about it is addictive and what I own my VX and other cars for. Electric cars are already here, have driven a few, and soulless is the only definition that is constant across them all. I have never been after out right performance, its about the experience and the whine of an ev motor isn't something I have attached myself to. When ICE cars go in 20 years or so I will be too old to car and will be doing other stuff!

[slindborg]

I've driven a couple of EV's and have to say the one that was fun was the Delta E4 Coupe, granted its now knocking on 10 years old in tech etc but it was a riot because it was built to be light and sporty.

 

As the roads are congested nightmares, as potholes are rife etc etc then appliance cars are fine. Fun cars are just that and will remain that, even in EV world once the prices for the powertrain start to drop and folks see that they could have a 100Mile blast in something quick/fun etc.

 

"supercars" arent super anymore.... *starts fire*

200Mph is a piece of p*ss to hit, now its more like 230-270 where you are into super/hypercar land.

Its cheaper than ever to get a gnarly V6/8/10/12 2-2.5 seater thing that handles well and its a little obscure.

To me a super/hypercar is about the utterly bonkersness of it, even a Rolls Royce could be a supercar imho because its mega money and just silly.

[coldel]

Yes 200mph is attainable, but again thats just pub boasting for manufacturers now with 300mph hyper cars. And to be honest, thats not what I want either, I want something I feel attached to, that has character, that sounds and smells great, that feels alive. EVs are as you nicely describe it, appliances and perfect for your bang average A-B journey, they are clearly missing vital ingredients in why I suffer repeated open wallet surgery buying cars like the VX. 

 

I have stood on the side lines at Goodwood and watched and listened as a V8 F1 car hammered it down the straight. I still remember the experience as I type this now, it being utterly breathtaking, I have watched EVs go down same said straight faster, and its a nothing experience, nothing. There will be people that are fixated on performance and thats fine, but me personally, the experience beats that hands down every time.

[Ivor]

Yes 200mph is attainable, but again thats just pub boasting for manufacturers now with 300mph hyper cars. And to be honest, thats not what I want either, I want something I feel attached to, that has character, that sounds and smells great, that feels alive. EVs are as you nicely describe it, appliances and perfect for your bang average A-B journey, they are clearly missing vital ingredients in why I suffer repeated open wallet surgery buying cars like the VX.

I have stood on the side lines at Goodwood and watched and listened as a V8 F1 car hammered it down the straight. I still remember the experience as I type this now, it being utterly breathtaking, I have watched EVs go down same said straight faster, and its a nothing experience, nothing. There will be people that are fixated on performance and thats fine, but me personally, the experience beats that hands down every time.

That's why I have a garage full of V twin Ducatis

[coldel]

Aye I get that Ivor, my brother for some time was an avid bike fan (GSX'r) ended up doing a bit of dirt biking and now drives around in a very sensible Focus with his young family    he still has two bikes in the garage which he uses on special occasions!