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#21 Ivor

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 03:51 PM

The E marking will be an interesting challange.
Have a look at this back box for example, with the marking between the 1 tips:
https://www.ebay-kle...158098-223-2012
No e-number in sight, and i don't think the downpipe has either.

The oem cat had a precat and cat that was 400 cells.
Now 20 years later, that has very often been "upgraded", where the original ended up in the bin as it had little value.
Everybody here could easily pass MOT with an aftermarket version of choice.
The backboxes are still around, but usually missing parts like the 2 hangers, or the u-bend to connect it to the downpipe.
The oem backbox was a baffeled system, where as some aftermarket use absorption.
The baffeled one is the most silent.

1 step back here.
OEM the underside of the VX220 has a large plate under the engine, and a diffuser plate under the backbox part.
So no way the inspection can look for e-marks, without taking your car apart. Are they allowed to do that?
If not, then you just need to focus on a system that has a cat that can pass emissions, and a backbox that can make the noise test.

Do you know what is currently in the car? (manifold, downpipe with cat and backbox)

This is what the bottom looks like.
onderkant.jpg

Re the trays, exactly the point hairy and I were discussing today, in the UK they cannot take them off for MoTs, or at least I've never heard of them taking them off

Edited by Ivor, 15 May 2022 - 03:51 PM.


#22 noplex

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 09:56 AM

I see on the rear undertray there is small diagonal rounded slot - off centre - Can anyone tell me what is visible here? Just wondering if it is a bolt/fixing access and if the catalytic convertor is visible through here (if it has an e mark).



#23 noplex

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 10:20 AM

Im waiting to here if the undertray is allowed to be removed for inspection (hoping not obviously)

 

Wheels also need some kind of certification aswell (the car is fitted with TD 1.2s) I think they need to be TUV certified - Pro Race LT is certified from what I can see so Im figuring/hoping the Pro race 1.2 are aswell.

 

In terms of the test its slightly different to the shaken (MOT equivalent) as its the first test of an imported car which was not sold in Japan (yes the speedster is identical but on the paperwork the name/brand of car is different) so its more difficult to pass. It will be treated like a new car and the shaken will be 3 years later.

 

 



#24 hairy

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 04:27 PM

I see on the rear undertray there is small diagonal rounded slot - off centre - Can anyone tell me what is visible here? Just wondering if it is a bolt/fixing access and if the catalytic convertor is visible through here (if it has an e mark).

 

As it happens, I took a picture for someone else not long ago. You can't see the cat (this is a turbo).

 

http://www.snapfish....441070/SNAPFISH



#25 Arno

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Posted 16 May 2022 - 06:49 PM

The E marking will be an interesting challange.

Have a look at this back box for example, with the marking between the 1 tips:

https://www.ebay-kle...158098-223-2012

No e-number in sight, and i don't think the downpipe has either.

 

 

Our cars pre-date actual E markings like is done on current cars, but the (Lotus) part number and identification tag on the silencer should be sufficient to verify it's 'Original Fitment' and be traceable to GM by the guys who do the checks.

 

Same as the downpipe/cat combo. There will be a number etched/engraved into the cat/pipe body that will identify it as an original part.

 

UK parts are usually not very good at having all the 'paperwork' arranged as the UK MOT and such doesn't check things like that so UK manufacturers usually don't go through the effort for approvals unless it's a big company like AP.

 

Expect to need to replace some UK-made parts that need official approval marks for importing as they will be seen as 'track only' in other countries.

 

Replacement parts from Germany usually have official approvals and anything listed and marked as 'ABE' means it's a homologated part that has EU type approval as a replacement. Should be sufficient as a 'official replacement' for the import process too.

 

Of course.. It all still needs to pass the tests :)

 

Bye, Arno.



#26 blackoctagon

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 10:26 AM

I would definately need standard injectors as it has VXR injectors on it now and the import guy here said that the VXR injectors would be a problem.

PCM?
I dont know the code for the immobiliser and I have no idea what a MPPS is sorry - if you can explain more, that would be great. 
I know I have a hard job coming but am willing to learn so all help from this forum will be really appreciated. Most Ive done on a VX (a long time ago) was change the suspension and mod the airbox (turbo) so this will be a steep learning curve.

Thank you

PCM = powertrain control module. I should have said ECU as thats what most people would call them.

An MPPS is an interface that reads PCMs. You get a cable with a box and plug it into your PC. The software goes on the PC and you drive it from there.
It plugs in via the OBD2 port under the dashboard, and you can read the actual program on the PCM(ECU). This is the code that contains igniton maps, fuel maps etc.

When you have the program - called a .bin file - saved then you open it in a hex editor, go to a specific line address in the code and you will see 4 numbers. Those are your code numbers.
Hex editors are available free - I use NeoHex. Google will help.

MPPS-alikes can be found on ebay for £20 and will cover your PCM if you pretend it's a 2.2 Astra. With the software in front of you this would be straighforward.

I can talk you through all of this. It sounds 100 times worse than it actually is. The first time you do it it feels like defusing a bomb, then it becomes a few minutes work as routine as changing sparkplugs.


If the PCM you have is a remapped standard one then it will work fine.
If it is a OBD tuner modified one then I think it should work fine, although I can check.
If it is a non-GM GMPT15 (thats the standard unit's name/type) aftermarket one then you may be in a bit more trouble. Although it's wholly possible the immobiliser is actually off in that case.

#27 noplex

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 11:39 AM

 

I would definately need standard injectors as it has VXR injectors on it now and the import guy here said that the VXR injectors would be a problem.

PCM?
I dont know the code for the immobiliser and I have no idea what a MPPS is sorry - if you can explain more, that would be great. 
I know I have a hard job coming but am willing to learn so all help from this forum will be really appreciated. Most Ive done on a VX (a long time ago) was change the suspension and mod the airbox (turbo) so this will be a steep learning curve.

Thank you

PCM = powertrain control module. I should have said ECU as thats what most people would call them.

An MPPS is an interface that reads PCMs. You get a cable with a box and plug it into your PC. The software goes on the PC and you drive it from there.
It plugs in via the OBD2 port under the dashboard, and you can read the actual program on the PCM(ECU). This is the code that contains igniton maps, fuel maps etc.

When you have the program - called a .bin file - saved then you open it in a hex editor, go to a specific line address in the code and you will see 4 numbers. Those are your code numbers.
Hex editors are available free - I use NeoHex. Google will help.

MPPS-alikes can be found on ebay for £20 and will cover your PCM if you pretend it's a 2.2 Astra. With the software in front of you this would be straighforward.

I can talk you through all of this. It sounds 100 times worse than it actually is. The first time you do it it feels like defusing a bomb, then it becomes a few minutes work as routine as changing sparkplugs.


If the PCM you have is a remapped standard one then it will work fine.
If it is a OBD tuner modified one then I think it should work fine, although I can check.
If it is a non-GM GMPT15 (thats the standard unit's name/type) aftermarket one then you may be in a bit more trouble. Although it's wholly possible the immobiliser is actually off in that case.

 

Thank you for the great information and help. At the moment it looks like I need a full (standard) exhaust replacement as a minimum. After that Im unsure as yet. Car arrives on 29th of this month. As I find out more I might come back to you for some further help if you are ok with that



#28 smiley

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 06:56 PM

Post a wanted for a full oem system here:

https://www.facebook...oups/2243368893

More traffic on there unfortunately.



#29 noplex

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 10:53 PM

Post a wanted for a full oem system here:

https://www.facebook...oups/2243368893

More traffic on there unfortunately.

 

Will do - thats my next step - Thank you



#30 noplex

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 11:45 AM

So here is an update on my car import to Japan:

 

The car arrives on Sunday. On monday pending any delay I will go to the shipping company to fill out some paperwork and then to customs office to pay import tax and some more paperwork and take the car for an x-ray (presumably to check for drug smuggling).

 

After that I can arrange for car collection to my house.

 

The car will stay here until I have the parts I need for the emissions test.

 

To safely pass the test in a way that causes least hassle is to get an exhaust system with 400 cell cat (euro 5 and e-mark) and 200 cell pre cat (same) , or potentially 3x200 cell

This would be same set up as most new cars which pass current emissions test. Could be overkill but retest has same fee which its expensive and is fool proof as far as possible

This might be mod an existing system or just go custom made. (Im in touch with ex tullet guy for this)

After the test (3 years later and then subsequent bi-yearly test like MOT) return to existing de cat set up

 

Thanks for all the help and advice so far its been very useful when discussing with the import agent. I will prob fit the new exhaust myself to save on costs



#31 smiley

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Posted 25 May 2022 - 08:04 PM

That all sounds very good.

 



#32 noplex

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 02:29 AM

So it seems there is one more thing I need - EGR valve fitted and working (only for the first test and not for subsequent tests/MOT)

 

The car has an EGR valve delete. So I need to find one and get it fitted. Am I right in thinking that this part is the same as with the Astra and other Vauxhall's with the same engine?

Is it likely to be switched off in the mapping/ECU? As far as I know the car is not running OBD so as a guess maybe Courtney remap or similar (wont know until I get the paperwork)

 

Anyone got a working one they want to sell me? I will also need the wiring/cable for this I would assume

 


Edited by noplex, 26 May 2022 - 02:39 AM.


#33 aquilaproejct

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 07:47 AM

It's the same as a Vectra / Astra with a z22se..if you put it on and plug it in they won't know it's turned off in the map.. the connector is probably still there. if you are planning on taking off the supercharger, you need a base ecu with cal anyway? What injectors do you have with the supercharger as these won't work with a base ecu cal.

#34 noplex

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 08:10 AM

VXR Injectors and the Supercharger should be staying on. Exhaust (400 cell and 200 cell Euro 5) and EGR valve need to be there for emission test only (The car will be classed as a new car in Japan, despite being 19 years old)



#35 Arno

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 08:20 AM


To safely pass the test in a way that causes least hassle is to get an exhaust system with 400 cell cat (euro 5 and e-mark) and 200 cell pre cat (same) , or potentially 3x200 cell

This would be same set up as most new cars which pass current emissions test.

 

Get an EU4 rated (main) cat. May sound odd, but official EU5 cats often have less active catalytic material in them than the older ones as the new engines with direct fuel injection and such already start out with a much 'cleaner' exhaust gas and a somewhat different composition, so they don't need as much cleanup afterwards. EU3 and EU4 cats normally have the highest washcoat active material density. (which is whay they are so popular with thieves as they bring in much more $$$$)

 

Also, I'd duplicate the OEM cat setup with a small metal-core precat (100CPI, 100mm diameter) at the manifold connection and a huge ceramic-core main cat furhter down (400 or 600cpi) with at least a 125mm diameter and 300+mm long one. That should fulfill all the emission requirements and if it's all sized appropriately you'll hardly even notice it power-wise with an SC anyway if you keep the pipe sizes at 2.5". Perhaps even stick the main cat in with V-bands so you can swap in a 200CPI sport cat if so desired..

 

Bye, Arno.



#36 smiley

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 08:30 AM

There will be a few things going on to look at.

Here is a new egr, in case you cannot get a used one.

https://www.regelin-...22se-motor.html

 

As you see, it connects with a plug to the wiring.
Depending on what was done previously to remove it:
- The plug was cut off to fit an egr cheater. (you schould see a thick bundle of wire, taped in shut with the cheater at the end.
  Should look a bit like this: https://tafmet.pl/en...se-engines.html
- The plug is still there if obdtuner is used, where the egr disable is just a tickbox. In that case it's easy; bolt on egr, plug it in and done.

 

The actual egr mechanism has 2 locations. The egr unit as the on/off to route poorly burned exhaust fumes back into an internal pipe in the engine.
That pipe ends at the rear of the engine, and then goes via a flexible hose into your inlet manifold.
The hole in the rear of the engine can be seen here:

https://z22se.co.uk/...ate-info.16720/

The supercharger manifold does not have a connector for this, so you cannot put the egr back in full working order.
Not a bad thing, as you do not need a working egr to make the emissions test. It just needs to look ok.
The inspection guy will not be able to grasp that last hose, as it is just too far hidden behind the engine.

 

So see if you can find the loose wiring, and then just bolt on any egr from any Z22SE (even a broken one will do) and you should be fine.
 

 



#37 noplex

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 11:40 AM

With the EGR valve I think it would need to be plumbed in somewhere. If I know enough about Japanese people in General, especially those working in this kind of job they will find something like this. They are using a small camera to check down in areas not accessible to check for E-markings and anything else - so I suspect they might find a hose not connected quite easily and then its a fail. The import agent contacted me today specifically about the EGR valve needing to be present and working (or at least giving a good account of it working, so at least connected properly) 

 

Does this mean the only way to fit an EGR is to remove the Supercharger? Or is there another way? 

 

With regards to the exhaust, I don't know enough about emissions to say which way is better other than advice here and the import agent. I will pass the information to him anyway. (After the test the decat system will go back on)


Edited by noplex, 26 May 2022 - 11:46 AM.


#38 smiley

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Posted 26 May 2022 - 03:01 PM

Here you can see the oem inlet manifold with the hose i mentioned still attached,

https://www.proxypar...partid/3351231/

 

As you see it is plumbed into the design, which is not present on the SC manifold.
I believe it is not very flexible, so not easy to route into your inlet pipe for example.
Or share the pipe of the brake vacuum hose (red arrow) or where the map sensor is mounted (blue arrow)
m62.jpg
That would have to be fabricated, and would be your easiest route.

 

If you go the oem inlet manifold route, then it becomes a lot more work. SC removal, manifold removal, ecu map swap (which may trigger other things to be swapped)
Basically a reverting almost fully to stock.

 

When you get the car, start taking pictures of the enigine bay so we can better guess what has been done and the next steps.


Edited by smiley, 26 May 2022 - 03:13 PM.


#39 noplex

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 12:41 AM

Here you can see the oem inlet manifold with the hose i mentioned still attached,

https://www.proxypar...partid/3351231/

 

As you see it is plumbed into the design, which is not present on the SC manifold.
I believe it is not very flexible, so not easy to route into your inlet pipe for example.
Or share the pipe of the brake vacuum hose (red arrow) or where the map sensor is mounted (blue arrow)
m62.jpg
That would have to be fabricated, and would be your easiest route.

 

If you go the oem inlet manifold route, then it becomes a lot more work. SC removal, manifold removal, ecu map swap (which may trigger other things to be swapped)
Basically a reverting almost fully to stock.

 

When you get the car, start taking pictures of the enigine bay so we can better guess what has been done and the next steps.

 

Many Thanks

 

If I understand correctly - If I fabricate a new pipe then I could also go to the inlet pipe or the Supercharger (red or Blue arrows) Brake vacuum (red) hose would need some kind of Y adapter/splitter?



#40 aquilaproejct

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 06:22 AM

Yes but it would be for show obviously. EGR will have been calibrated off




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