14 replies to this topic

[lambert]

I am looking for LSJ Camshaft sprockets

 

or a adress where I could buy them

[stevieturbo]

Not just use Saab parts ? Or Z22 ? Should be readily available locally in a timing kit.

 

https://www.rockauto...m sprocket,5722

 

Rockauto usually cheap enough

[lambert]

thanks for the answer

I do have the Saab ones installed with my stage 1 Cams, now I am going to install the Comp Cams stage 2 SC, but ZZP did not supply a data sheet how to degree the cams, they recomendet to use the LSJ sprocket because they have a key way

 

the datas for "Comp cams Stage 2 blower" would also solve my problem

[stevieturbo]

Have you any more info on the cams ? part numbers ? they should be etched into the cams, or on the box etc 

 

FFS, my engine has a pair of Comp Cams in it and whoever built it fitted the inlet cam on the exhaust side, and the exhaust cam on the inlet side.

 

This is info I found online and saved for the various camshaft data, as it did seem hard to come by.

 

https://www.cspracin...52/comp-113200/

 

Street 113200 set (113201 int / 113202 exh ) grind # ECO XE252HR-11

 

Grind Specs 8758/8759 HR111

 

INT

Max Gross Lift: .423

Cam Lobe Lift: .250

Advertised Duration: 252

Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 210

Valve Timing @

0.50 Valve Lift: BTDC: -5

BBDC: 38

 

EXH

Max Gross Lift: .419

Cam Lobe Lift: .248

Advertised Duration: 256

Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 212

Valve Timing @

0.50 Valve Lift: ATDC: -6

ABDC: 38

These specs are for the cams installed at the following maximum lift centerlines: INT:110 EXH: 112

 

 

Full list from the vx220 page

 

Here are the specs for 4 of them: Street 113200 set (113201 int / 113202 exh ) grind # ECO XE252HR-11 Grind Specs 8758/8759 HR111 

INT 

Max Gross Lift: .423 Cam Lobe Lift: .250 

Advertised Duration: 252 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 210 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: BTDC: -5 BBDC: 38 

 

EXH 

Max Gross Lift: .419 Cam Lobe Lift: .248 

Advertised Duration: 256 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 212 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: ATDC: -6 ABDC: 38 

These specs are for the cams installed at the following maximum lift centerlines: INT:110 EXH: 112 

 

Street /Strip 113300 set 113301 INT/113302 EXH ) GRIND # ECO XE258HR-11 Grind Specs 8760/8761 HR111 

INT 

Max Gross Lift: .440 Cam Lobe Lift: .260 

Advertised Duration: 258 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 216 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: BTDC: -2 BBDC: 41 

 

EXH 

Max Gross Lift: .436 Cam Lobe Lift: 258 

Advertised Duration: 262 

Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 218 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: ATDC: -3 ABDC: 38 

These specs are for the cams installed at the following maximum lift centerlines: INT:110 EXH: 112 

 

Blower/Super Charger 113250 (113251 INT/ 113252 EXH) GRIND # ECO XE252BHR-13 Grind Specs 8758/8761 HR113 

INT 

Max Gross Lift: .423 Cam Lobe Lift: .250 

Advertised Duration: 252 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 210 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: BTDC: -7 BBDC: 43 

 

EXH 

Max Gross Lift: .436 Cam Lobe Lift: .258 

Advertised Duration: 262 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 218 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: ATDC: -5 ABDC: 37 

These specs are for the cams installed at the following maximum lift centerlines: INT:112 EXH: 114 

 

Turbo 113150 SET (113151 INT/113152 EXH ) Grind # ECO XE246THR-13 Grind Specs 8756/8755 HR113 

INT 

Max Gross Lift: .423 Cam Lobe Lift: .250 

Advertised Duration: 248 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift: 204 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: BTDC: -10 BBDC: 34 

 

EXH 

Max Gross Lift: .419 Cam Lobe Lift: .248 

Advertised Duration: 244 Duration @ 0.50 

Valve Lift: 200 

Valve Timing @ 0.50 Valve Lift: ATDC: -14 ABDC: 34 

These specs are for the cams installed at the following maximum lift centerlines: INT: 112 EXH: 114

[2-20]

Lsj and L61 (z22se) cam sprockets are the same.
You can check it with timing chain kits ...
They are the same for both engines

[lambert]

@ stevieturbo

thanks for all this information, I did check my cams today, looks like 216/218 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift

just don"t know the maximum lift centerlines, would go with 112 - 114

 

@2-20

I know they would fit, but to my knowlage the Z22SE Sprocket wheels are few degres off, and you loose some power

[stevieturbo]

 I was under the belief the Saab wheels had no indexing, and relied on bolt/tension to lock.

 

Hence totally adjustable.

 

From any pictures I've seen elsewhere, It seems mine has Saab camwheels ( B207 anyway, so you'd kinda expect that )

 

When I get the clam off soon, I'll be checking cam timing over the winter among other changes needed. I'd be surprised if timing is correct ( despite them in the wrong position ), the engine just seems a bit too lumpy at idle for what are very mild cams.

The lobes would be symmetrical anyway, so other than being bizarre to have done it, shouldn't be a huge deal if timed correctly for their location.

[stevieturbo]

@ stevieturbo

thanks for all this information, I did check my cams today, looks like 216/218 Duration @ 0.50 Valve Lift

just don"t know the maximum lift centerlines, would go with 112 - 114

 

@2-20

I know they would fit, but to my knowlage the Z22SE Sprocket wheels are few degres off, and you loose some power

 

 

The 216/218 are clearly listed as 110/112.

 

You'd need to, be a lot off to "lose power", often changing cam timing has more affect on where it makes power, rather than how much it makes.

As well as driveability, idle, emissions etc

 

Decent video playing about with some cam timing.

 

[2-20]

@2-20
I know they would fit, but to my knowlage the Z22SE Sprocket wheels are few degres off, and you loose some power

I just checked a saturn ion redline (LSJ inside) parts catalog and the one of the Vx220.
On both engines, the part number is the same : 90537632

There is no différence. Check by yourself it's easy.
Nemigaparts.com for Saturn ion redline LSJ parts catalog.
And the Nederlandse Opel Speedster club bibliotheek for the z22se

[2-20]

One question
Have you bought the stage 2 SC cams specifically developed by and for ZZPerformance but manufactured by Comp cams ?

Or the Comp cams blower cams?
Or the Comp cams stage 2 NA ?

[lambert]

I have the : stage 2 SC cams specifically developed by and for ZZPerformance but manufactured by Comp cams

 

they state to be better than the original comp cams, I don"t know is thrue or not

 

unfortunaly I build a complete exhaust system at the moment, calculatet and desinged for my specific setup

I also removed the balancer shaft,

and installed harder valve springs

 

so it will be hard to say how much gain is comming from the cams, to many changes at  the time.

[2-20]

The zzp stage 2 SC cams are equivalent to Compcams NA stage 1 (113200) in term of lobe grinds.
Timing is different and sorted out by ZZP so they won't disclose these figures.

[stevieturbo]

The zzp stage 2 SC cams are equivalent to Compcams NA stage 1 (113200) in term of lobe grinds.
Timing is different and sorted out by ZZP so they won't disclose these figures.

 

 

Kind of difficult for anyone to time their cams, if they do not disclose the numbers to anyone buying them ?

 

Let's face it, there's little black art with cams these days. There are thousands of 4cyl engines out there, and cams will be very similar across different platforms, with similar timing figures.

They're all 4 stroke engines, they all operate the same way, and most modern stuff will have decent and similar airflow behaviours and hence durations and valve events

 

Even comparing the likes of a Kelford Subaru cam in the 250-260 range, the numbers are within 3-4deg of the most similar duration Comp Cam listed for the Ecotec, and some of those are only different from very slightly lobe centreline timings. So in effect are almost the same really if you wanted to play with the cams themselves.

 

Hell as said, my engine has the cams fitted in the wrong position, and it still, works well. I'm sure it could be improved on, as I suspect they are not timed correctly, but that's purely down to how it idles, which is nowhere near as smooth as it should be for what are still very mild cams.

Although non sequential injection probably isn't helping a lot either with the crappy AEM ecu.

[2-20]

Well, some people have received the ZZP stage 2 SC cams with the figures written on the box of each cam.
There are some values in some threads on this site...
But not consistant... sometimes it's 102/116 and sometimes 108 / 117...
The easiest is just to install the z22se/LSJ sprockets in the slot and call it a day.
About idle, yes the OEM ECU does not help.
Similar cams used in NA form with the ITB kit have no issue with idle

Edited by 2-20, 05 November 2023 - 04:40 PM.

[Exmantaa]

Out of my head, as it is some time ago, but the "special ZZP Comp Cams" difference is that they checked the timing of each.

Comp Ecotec grinds were sometimes way off when slotted in with the LSJ/Z22SE fixed sprockets...

(not a problem when you time them correctly with modified or Saab sprockets)

 

As mentioned here; the ZZP profiles are (used to be) standard Comp Ecotec grinds, but nowadays they send their LSJ cams in a ZZP branded box without any spec sheet... 

Edited by Exmantaa, 17 November 2023 - 10:52 PM.