25 replies to this topic

[goofballs]

Took my car to my race car specialist. Err...there are no geometry settings that can be adjusted on the front. I was shocked, a car that does 0-60 in 4.7 sec, and is being sold as a part time track day car, cannot even have its negative camber adjusted. I don't know whether the lotus elise is the same, but this has Vauxhall cost-cutting written all over it. I am very, very pissed off. I will almost certainly have to change to thicker front tyres to reduce the understeer.

[speedyK]

Maybe the upcoming Sprint package will offer a suspension upgrade like the one on the N/A Sprint Thorney's playing with now - that has an Exige front suspension which should be good enough. Then you could retro-fit it. ££££££?????

[goofballs]

It is a thought. However, I've got a feeling that I will probably have to be very patient until this new line of accessories are available. Oh well, maybe I could do my own DIY negative camber settings

[Thorney]

Here are your choices: Spax - adjustable and available now, used by a few here. Nitron - I'm testing a kit in 2 weeks time to see how they are. Vauxhall - Sprint kit will be available, but you're right it cold be a while.

[goofballs]

Here are your choices:

Spax - adjustable and available now, used by a few here.

Nitron - I'm testing a kit in 2 weeks time to see how they are.

Vauxhall - Sprint kit will be available, but you're right it cold be a while.

Thorney,

The adjustability I will be looking for is in geometry, not the damping.

Toe, Camber, Castor.

I would think that the adjustable components fitted to the VX Sprint will have these fitted. Where abouts was your house again ? I'll make sure that I leave the car on some very nice Limestone bricks. Similar to Bath Town Centre.


cheers

[garyk220]

The Elise has shims on the upright to adjust camber (front and rear) and washers on the top wishbone front mounting to adjust castor. Toe is easy to set using the track rod ends (front) and toe-link (rear). Would be surprised if the VX is assembled any differently! Anyone with the tech manual able to comment?

Edited by garyk220, 16 May 2003 - 08:42 AM.

[goofballs]

The Elise has shims on the upright to adjust camber (front and rear) and washers on the top wishbone front mounting to adjust castor. Toe is easy to set using the track rod ends (front) and toe-link (rear). Would be surprised if the VX is assembled any differently!

Anyone with the tech manual able to comment?

is this a standard elise S2, or any of the specials ?


cheers

[garyk220]

All Elises - S1 and S2. That's why I've assumed the VX will have a similar set-up.

[Ricky2772]

Took my car to my race car specialist.

Err...there are no geometry settings that can be adjusted on the front.

your "race car specialist" must've had indulged in heavy ,
since there are a pack of 5 shims front and rear to adjust the camber.....
I did it myself at the rear, adding a thicker shim to decrease the excessive "/ \ " inner wear, and I will do the opposite at the front today, to decrease the outer wear, a bit too pronounced for my liking, seen after 2 trackdays. with the Exige setup +spax combo.

[goofballs]

Took my car to my race car specialist.

Err...there are no geometry settings that can be adjusted on the front.

your "race car specialist" must've had indulged in heavy ,
since there are a pack of 5 shims front and rear to adjust the camber.....
I did it myself at the rear, adding a thicker shim to decrease the excessive "/ \ " inner wear, and I will do the opposite at the front today, to decrease the outer wear, a bit too pronounced for my liking, seen after 2 trackdays. with the Exige setup +spax combo.

I gave him a ring and he said that he hasn't looked at the rear (because the most important adjustment to make is on the front), although he said that the rear is likely to be able to be adjusted. However adjusting the rear on its own will not provide the correct result. At the front you can adjust the castor only (with the shims you stated).

Have you ever adjusted the negative camber on the front ? , because if this is the case, then my specialist must have had a few too many.


cheers

Edited by goofballs, 16 May 2003 - 09:54 AM.

[BrianDrought]

The camber *IS* adjustable on the front, aswell as toe, castor and to an extent, bumpsteer as you can move your steering rack up and down :-) I'd get the geo checked against the specs first...it's highly likely it left the lotus factory with slightly.... how can I put this... 'wrong' settings ! Bri

[Ricky2772]

Have you ever adjusted the negative camber on the front ? , because if this is the case, then my specialist must have had a few too many.


cheers

...too many?! I'd suspect crack/LSD.....

...as a matter of fact, I just finished adjusting the FRONT camber...it took me ...what....25 mins maybe, for BOTH fronts....

removed ONE of the FOUR front shims, so to increase the "/ \" (vertical inclination, so to speak) angle.....
first impressions is an increased steering response, diminished understeer and crisper turn-in....I also went for a quick 180-190 kmh blast, and speedy stayed remarkably stable (very important...lerned it from last year's Ring experience... ).

I guess once I reinstall the 195-16 yokos, the effect will be even more dramatic...

I MIGHT try a bit more open toe, to take the aggressive turn-in edge out...


I'd suggest this mod mostly for the lowered cars, since on normal setups it MIGHT increase the inner wear a bit much, but not sure about that....visually it IS noticeable....

worth a try anyway, it's a breeze to put back togheter in case doesn't work...
it's definitely the cheapest (zero cost indeed!) "understeer-reducing-mod " on the market!

will post piccies....

Edited by Ricky2772, 16 May 2003 - 11:39 AM.

[Ricky2772]

here is one of the front shims I removed....hey, 15 grams!!!

Attached Files

•  front_shim.jpg   39.18KB   0 downloads

[Ricky2772]

those are the tools needed.... notice the broken ratchet 8mm nut.... ...too small/weak to unlock the bolt, use the big "L" one first, then use the smaller ratchet to speed up the removal..... HINT: no need to remove both hub bolts, onlly remove the front one and loosen the rear one...shims will slide out and you won't loose the hub alignment. ahem, needless to say, wheel needs to come off first...

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•  shim_tools.jpg   36.19KB   0 downloads

Edited by Ricky2772, 16 May 2003 - 11:45 AM.

[goofballs]

Well, having spoken to the VX specialist mechanic of one of the largest dealerships in the UK he confirmed that........ da da ra da da da..........the VXT does not have a way of adjusting the camber settings on the front. There are other settings that can be adjusted, however dialing in negative camber is not one of them. Which is the primary way of reducing understeer, as you said in your previous post. So first of all that vindicates what was said by my race car specialist (that "negative camber" cannot be adjusted on the front of a standard VXT). I am fairly certain he hasn't taken any illegal substances for at least 15 years . And if the Vauxhall chap did as well then the whole world looks like they were tripping for the last 2 days. However, I for one want to be able to adjust the negative camber, there are many ways, even roundabout ways of achieving this. It seems you know what you are talking about, however I am not overly technical when it comes to adjusting the geometry settings and therefore, I don't deny that your car looks as if it has negative set at the front. This could be for one of a number of reasons : a) The VX has got adjustable camber settings, and the VXT doesn't. When you lowered the car, it automatically made it look as if it has negative camber. c) By removing the front shim, or conducting another indirect action you dialed in further negative camber. So, to ensure that we finally resolve this matter. If the VX sprint engineers (via Thorney), or Regal (via minime), or any other chaps can confirm this, it will help us to achieve a better setup on the car, to avoid the dreaded understeer problem. cheers

[Ricky2772]

a) The VX has got adjustable camber settings, and the VXT doesn't.

if that's the case.....
congrats Vauxhall for screwing up enthusiast's modding needs, and more proof that the VXT was thought as a fast cruiser more than a dedicated track tool.

...still....can't fathom how an extreme sport car can be w/out a camber setting...

[goofballs]

a) The VX has got adjustable camber settings, and the VXT doesn't.

if that's the case.....
congrats Vauxhall for screwing up enthusiast's modding needs, and more proof that the VXT was thought as a fast cruiser more than a dedicated track tool.

...still....can't fathom how an extreme sport car can be w/out a camber setting...

I shall be doing some more investigating.

Hopefully have some results soon


cheers

[TheRockstar]

Have to say, that is utter rubbish. The double wishbone suspension on the VX is the same design principal as the Elise (mk1 and 2) In which it enables you to set up the geometry in detail (very similar to a race car setup)... Vauxhall havent changed the suspension on the VXT, they've only 'tuned' certain parts...i.e. softened the dampers it and stiffened the ARB (only my guess as to the changes.). They havent completely redesigned the suspension. The very nature of the cars suspension configuration means it 'has' to be set up carefully.... Goofballs, the geometry is entirely set up with the use of these shims, and not through any 'adjustment' device (such as a nut/thread etc).. See pic >

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•  untitled.jpg   72.16KB   0 downloads

[Ricky2772]

Rocky, that was a nice service note pic, it helped show how easy it is to mod the camber setting, much more that the toe, wher you'll still need a tyre shop to set it properly. once it is set though, you can play with the settings, as long as you remember how much you rotate the toe-link arms I did not use the permabond, since I don't like to struggle like a dog to undo those bolts.... they are pretty long and strong, and I check'em after every trackday, so.... there was some blue residues on one bolt only. surface corrosion (salt) was present on the shim, but nothing to worry about. the hubs are oxidized though, covered of reddish rusty powder....

[TheRockstar]

Indeed Ricky. I also have a set of 'Dunlop Gauges' available at work, which means I can play with the Toe settings fairly accurately (or at least check thegeometry.) A useful trick I learnt in my time problem solving at Land rover is to take a piece of very long elastic, tie it round one of the tyre valves, then walk all round the car with the elastic, and hook it together at the end. Once you've done this, align the elastic with the centre of each wheel, and you can visibly see the toe in / out on all the wheels. With a suitable angle measuring device, you can also measure the angle (accurate protractor or other such tool)........ I used to use this as a very very quick check when customer cars were pulling to the left. Did it on my car, and the toe seemed even left / right..... which is why I knew there was something else wrong with the car. Nick