84 replies to this topic

[Thorney]

You make arguements and then go back on them. One post is 'Well my car won't depreciate so there' and the next is 'I couldn't give a toss if my car is unpopular and you are sad if you buy a car as an investment'. Make your mind up.

No I didn't. I said the lack of supply would help any depreciation issues AND I didn't buy it for a financial investment - why are these two comments mutually exclusive?

If you're going to criticise someones comments at least read them

My suggestion that you had an Elise is an assumption based upon the fact that since we started this site there have been several Elise owners come on and 'have a go'. I've got no problem with that as long as it doesn't get personal, I just assumed you were one of these. I had no idea that owning an Elise was such an insult

[Thorney]

LOL Well I had a 1700SS for 8 years and loved every minute of it I sold it cos by the time I got to the bloody track I was too knackered to drive it, hence the VXT. NP on the posts, like I said we haven't suffered from too many muppets and your comments were friendly banter from a fellow enthusiast We're pretty keen here to make sure this board doesn't turn into a slagging match but at the same time friendly rivalry between marques is healthy isn't it

[Purebob]

Caterfields nearest competitors are probably superbikes I would think, not full-on roadsters like the VX. If I wanted a track only car I probably wouldn't get a VX either. The seats in the caterham I drive were ok but if you think they're the most comfortable ever I suggest you haven't driven an S class ! One of those S class seats probably weighs half what a caterham does ! I don't think VX owners can typically be accused of being badge obsessed, as by definition they each had twenty-three odd grand to spend on a roadster and chose not to buy a Lotus with it, whose badge has more cred with most onlookers. Many idiots expected the VX to depreciate like a Vectra, not realising that its oversupply that depreciates vectras, not competence or street cred. VXs don't have bdage cachet to prop up used values its true, but neither do teh dreamers' elises fetch the prices they advertise at. Right now autotrader indicates that there's typically only 2-3 grand difference between a used VX and its equivalent Elise but I reckon that will get bigger if the VX T catches on. I'm still going for a NA VX220 as its fun under a ton and plenty quick enough on our gatso infested roads IMO. I'm tired of not being able to exploit my current Integra type R, and the VX-T would be even harder to fully use IMO. *spelling, d'oh! *

Edited by Purebob, 23 January 2003 - 12:02 PM.

[PaulCP]

Interesting debate this one - may as well offer my opinions as an ex 7 owner and now happy & content VX owner. The 7 was a wonderful road car on good summer weekends. Kept it for 6 years until i realised that "good summer weekends" meant 3 or 4 per year. Wanted something more useful & thought about a TVR. In the end decided what i really wanted was the fun of the 7 in a car i could use all year round. Drove an Elise then drove the VX and the decision was instant. Don't care about you badge snobs or residuals, particularly since i paid for the VX £5000 less than a similarly specced Elise! For me debate over!!!!!!!!!!

[Thorney]

Er...yes I rekon 6 months then I'll start to mod it is more likely . I'm quite keen to keep it for quite a while as I rekon modded with suspension, chip/exhaust/manifold it'll be able to put out 250+bhp and handle like a Caterham

[Thorney]

Interesting debate this one - may as well offer my opinions as an ex 7 owner and now happy & content VX owner.

The 7 was a wonderful road car on good summer weekends. Kept it for 6 years until i realised that "good summer weekends" meant 3 or 4 per year.

Wanted something more useful & thought about a TVR. In the end decided what i really wanted was the fun of the 7 in a car i could use all year round.

Drove an Elise then drove the VX and the decision was instant. Don't care about you badge snobs or residuals, particularly since i paid for the VX £5000 less than a similarly specced Elise!

For me debate over!!!!!!!!!!

Spot on.....exactly the same for me.

[mal_dun]

I'm probably the group Grandad (55). Why don't we stop the bitching about badges, residuals etc. I bought mine irrespective of the badge - I liked the looks and performance I didn't buy Lotus 'cause the dealer was a tw*t I didn't buy Caterham 'cause I needed an every day car (very tempted though) I couldn't care less about the residual - every other car I've owned hasn't had any so why start now I love Caterhams and will have one some day MalcolmD p.s. noticed someone mentioned boot and hot engine - I produced data showing that the effect of the temperature in the boot is negligible. I posted it on the Yahoo group and can do so here if anyone wants a look

[Thorney]

Malcolm.....that would be great....thx. 55 - that just means you have more experience surely

[PipSqueak111]

Caterfields nearest competitors are probably superbikes I would think, not full-on roadsters like the VX.
If I wanted a track only car I probably wouldn't get a VX either.

Caterfields' (of the 7 replica variety) nearest rivals are the new Westfield XTR2 and Radical SR3. Like the Caterfields, they are impractical from a weather point of view. Stepping up the ladder in practicality you then get the Elise and VX, which are more useable as an everyday car (especially when you don't have a garage!). Stepping down the ladder you get the Lotus 340R and Ariel Atom. It's all horses for courses.

[mal_dun]

Thorney - Experience coming out me ears, honest guv I'll post the temperature data MalcolmD

[Purebob]

Why don't we stop the bitching about badges, residuals etc.

'cos its fun !

[Andy]

Brilliant response to this topic so far! Top job on the site 'Thorney'. I am interested in expanding on some of the comments that a turbo may not suit a lightweight car. Especially since I may be ordering the vx turbo without driving it. (I know) Do you think the turbo jerk of injected power would be exaggerated by the cars light weight ? The only experience I have with Turbos is owning a Fiat Coupe Turbo and that was fun. Although 220bhp through the front wheels was interesting. I noticed on a previous thread that upgrade freak 'minime' is achieving a 0-100 time of around 14.5 sec with his modifications to the NA VX. This compares to a quoted 13 sec for the turbo. But I guess the mods carried out would pay for the difference between NA and Turbo VX.

[Thorney]

The turbo/non turbo debate will outlast the internal combustion engine I rekon In short there are those who like the way a turbo delivers the power and those who don't. I prefer turbo delivery. I went from a P1 Impreza to an M3 (E46) and felt the M3 was slow in comparison even though against the clock it wasn't. I just prefer turbo's The issue of whether a turbo suits a lightweight car is an anathema (sp ), the real issue is whether the turbo can feed the power to the wheels smoothly. I've ordered a VXT but if after a test drive I don't rekon Vauxhall have done it I'll cancel it. However turbo delivery now is pretty sophisticated and as such the surge you feel is controlled but still fun. I suggest having a go in an old R5 Turbo, the turbo on this car was like an on/off switch, hilarious on a track but downright dangerous on the road. Modern turbo's are far superior mainly because so much development work has gone into them from all the manufacturers. Also, I intend to track the VX and for that reason the car will spend its time high in the rev range with the turbo on boost so relatively few issues of on/off delivery. Finally, it is dead easy to get more power out of a turbo engine by exhaust/chip changes as long as the engine itself has high tolerances of wear. The 2L Vauxhall lump has been in motorsport for ages and there are loads of Astra's etc running 270bhp without problems. To get that kind of power out of an NA lump you're talking thousands of £££.

[Thorney]

See, I told you people have their own opinions on this Less driveable? Diasagree, different to drive - yes. Harder to drive - Disagree, harder to drive quickly - yes, but what the fun of having a car like this which is easy to drive? Don't agree on being unable to heel and toe just requires driver skill to do it. Ah, the debate begins.........

[stumpy]

Thorney, I think this is another debate, but you are right about the power delivery being the real issue. I thought the 2.0 t unit at GM had basically come from saab. If (as I suspect, vauxall just deliver the stock motor) then surely this will be a real handfull. Am not saying that the turbo unit cannot be remapped but it will be very very interesting! Smooooooth is what will be needed - did I read somewhere that it could produce 16 PSI boost pressure? Stumpy

[Thorney]

Hehe, all well meaning old chap I'm not sure I understand your question? I do agree that H&T 'may' be slower but that depends more on the skill of the driver that NA/FI. To be honest there is no way we'll ever agree based on technicalities, its a seat of your arse thing. And my arse likes (along with donuts) turbo's. However I do understand why some people might think me the davils child (my surname is Thorne after all ) becasue they prefer NA.