18 replies to this topic

[Ricky2772]

Anyone read the sun column claiming Vx was a huge mistake that vauxhall have only just realised? Apparently is far more uglier and poorer to drive than its sister car the elise??

And its about time they dropped a turbo in it as the original vx is underpowered??

What planet is this woman on?

IT's a woman writing about sport cars.
'nuf said.
[sciovinist mode off]
:ph34r:

[P11 COV]

Surely this just adds to the view that the sun is not a newspaper and that the majority of it's stories are made up. Why is an intelligent person such as yourself (I assume this as you own a VX) buying such a pile of ....

[Purebob]

The Sun suffers from the same disease that Elise/VX owners do in commenting on preference as if were were provable fact. The Elise has an identifiable style, so does the VX. There isn't a person on the planet can say one is factually prettier than the other, just that they THINK one is prettier than the other. The VX still gobsmacks me in the flesh in the right colour - its a truly modern yet timeless, fuss free design. Its styling bravery will mean that not everyone will like it and the fact that not only does it NOT look like an Elise but it also robs some M250 styling will predispose some Elise fans to negative bias, but the fact remains some wil prefer one look, some prefer others. For the 'Sun' to represent this as fact is up to their usual standard of reportage. Also to call the VC a flop is interesting. As a car design I think it is a ripping success. Its handling and roadholding are quite sublime, its throttle responsiveness unique. As a driving experience its second to none under £50k IMO and presents a different but strong case for itself against the Elise. Now as an exercise in Halo branding for Vauxhall it perhaps has NOT been a success. Its a strange thing that Vauxhall have enjoyed a great deal of motorsport success in the past 3 decades, most recently with the Astra Coupe's in BTCC, but a thread that runs back through Vectra Supertourings to the 80s when old Astras also cleaned up yet despite this Vauxhall has been signally unsuccessful in having any of this success gild the Griffin brand with a little grooviness and some street cred. Why ? In my opinion too many people have run Vauxhalls to change their minds about the whole brand too easily even when presented with a fantastic car like the VX. Vauxhall ownership means dull, bland, lowest-common-denominator styling, handling and roadholding IME. It means "built down to a price", regular small failures, nothing truly terrible but nothing better than it needs to be. No spirit, no verve : just appliance ownership, and style-less, flimsy appliances at that. Dealer service has been laughably bad, customer care terrible. I once almost chose a Vectra GSI as a company car until I had one for a 48 hour test drive. It was incredible fun, fast and full of personality. however the foglights filled with water, the radio speakers cut out in the left hand door, the hatch rattled, the drivers window switch fell out and the drivers seat slipped off its runners... A rental Vectra I ran was a dog. A hire Astra was a dog....a courtesy car Corsa was a dog...dog dog dog. The lastest Astra goes & handles OK BUT whats the big deal ? Every competitor handles as well these days. Then to add insult to injury the last Vectra ad campaign told us factually that the new Vectra is a 'phenomenon' . In fact its is a softer, blander, bloatier , comfier Mondeo. Mazda 6 slaughters it as a driving car, so does the Mondeo. So Vauxhall with a brand redolent of all these negative things & and I can't think of many positive things TBH) produce the best British roadster in a decade is it a surprise that the brand conscious still but Lotuses ? I have chosen a VX in spite of its badge and expected awful dealer service not because of it. Like Autocar say in an editorial this week 'Would Vauxhall sell any less Vectras in Wilverhampton if they were badged Opel?" I think its time to bury the Griffin. Remember the Cool Opel Monza or the naff (but idential) Vauxhall Royale ? I do. Use the name Opel to buy a little German cred, use the oz Holden name to start afresh on the back of Neighbours, use a yank name , Pontiac or just brand 'em all GM, whatever, dump the Griffin and the VX and its successors will be successFUL. Label the VX Opel and GM'll sell every one in the UK.

[Beergut]

And anyway - who cares what the Sun thinks or writes.

ain't that the paper that has tits in it , or do they pay them to write as well now ?

Nigel

[minime]

graet comment beergut!!! made me laugh!! just thinking it could be that dozy Jordan doing the writing!!!

[Thorney]

Vauxhall tried to get Jordan into a VX for PR but found that two sets of airbags were incompatible

[JimH]

Label the VX Opel and GM'll sell every one in the UK.

The problem for GM is that while in Britain we fondly remember Opel for the Mantas and Monzas throughout the rest of the world Opel's image is just as low as Vauxhall's because of all the Opel Vectras, Corsas, etc, etbloodyc they build.

[Purebob]

That's quite true, jim, I had a hertz hire agent at Dusseldorf Airport apologise profusely and embarassedly to me for only having an Opel Omega elite for me with sat nav as the last A6 had been taken earlier ! (it was nice actually!) That's why I reckon it will work in the UK. On consideration though perhaps any badge would work btter than Vauxhall. Proton. Skoda. Microsoft. McVities, Lilets whatever....

[JimH]

I remember the Mantas, Monzas and Asconas. I also remember the HPFs, HSRs and Sporthatches. I don't think that there is anything wrong with the core values of Vauxhall. In recent years their output has been pretty terminal but there are plenty of manufacturers who go through bleak patches. Look at Ford before the Ka/Focus revolution. For years the best model on their books was the Transit. The same goes for Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Fiat and Volkswagen to name but a few. In many cases their image was sustained by a single model (205 GTi, Golf GTi, Sierra Cosworth etc). This seemed to hide the fact that the rest of their range was complete sh*t. Probably the best example I can cite is Mazda. If you take the MX5 out of the equation what other Mazdas would anyone be seen dead in? They are starting to turn it around now with the RX8 and the 6 but for years it was the 626, 323, 121 and endless other variations from the "Can't be arsed" school of car design. I don't believe Vauxhall's image is damaged beyond repair. If their image is so staid why are there so many pipsqueaks with baggy trousers and reversed headgear driving around in <ahem> tuned corsas and astras? Changing their name to Opel might help a bit but it won't get round the fact that they are consistently producing cars which are off the pace either in terms of dynamics or style. From what I have learned throughout several periods of Vauxhall ownership is that their customer support is appaling. It is this that will lead the turnaround. For years Jaguar built cars which were, to put it bluntly, crap. They were badly built, ugly, unreliable and dynamically inferior to what the Germans were turning out. If there were any justice in the world no one in their right mind would have bought one. And yet they would score consistently high in customer satisfaction surveys. Why? Because on the whole the dealers treated customers like royalty. Most of us are aware of the VXs limitations and I believe most of us would be happy to accept that they are low volume cars which have been somewhere near Lotus' factory. What makes the difference between a good and a bad experience is the behaviour of the dealer. If they try to sort problems out quickly, keep you informed, give you a car etc etc then you will be far more willing to accept any deficiency in the car. The thing is that none of this would cost huge amounts of money. It's pointless lavishing billions of pounds developing cars if the dealers are stuck in the dark ages. I have heard it argued that this is why Audi had a hard time of selling the A8 when it was first launched. Audi dealers were in the main Volkswagen dealers. They sold £8,000 Golfs and £5000 Polos. They were wholly unsuited to dealing with people who had just spent £50,000 on a car. It is this more than anything which is going to consign the Phateon to the what were they thinking section. It doesn't matter what badge they put on the front. If the service is sh*t then no one will touch them with a bargepole.

[Purebob]

But JimH, you're a Vauxophile or you wouldn't have been a multiple offender in the Vauxhall ownership stakes. Many more folks have had one really really bad Vauxhall ownership experience (like me) and they'll not trust the marque again until theres proof its changed. I have no idea whay Vauxhalls are the max power car of choice. Perhaps because they're very cheap to buy and mod and the engines are unburstable ? Certainly isn't the handling....

[garyk220]

Ah Bob, but handling is a very subjective term. The motoring press are partly responsible for the view that sharp, pointy steering defines a car that `handles` well. I've owned loads of performance Vauxhalls and never faulted the handling. My personal view is a car has good handling if it is stable, predictable and has high levels of grip and traction. Most of the motoring press would define this as inert or bland. Novas/Corsas were slaughtered by the press for poor handling. My GSi had understeer, oversteer and four wheel drifts on command. Try that in a Pug 205/6, the lift-off oversteer would pitch you into a ditch at the first tight bend. You just have to know what you are doing. Remember the old rally footage of Colin MacRae in his Gp A Nova? it oversteered as much as a Mk II Escort on gravel stages. Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear could only get the S2 Elise to display terminal understeer. In the hands of a decent driver it was a slightly different story I don`t know what the answer is. All Vauxhall can do is plug away at the press with decent performance cars. One day, the press will wake up and realise it is no longer cool to slag of Vauxhall and big-up Ford Probably won`t see it happen in our lifetime though

[JimH]

Maybe after that they will stop dropping to their knees and worshipping anything that came from Germany. That is, however, very unlikely.

[Purebob]

But Gary, once again you are a vaux fan if you've had lots of fast Vauxhalls, right ? Fans must like the basic traits of a marque or they wouldn't be fans right ? I've driven loads of Vauxhalls and almost never have they been stable, grippy etc. The powerful ones have torque steered and bounced all over the place, the limp ones have understeered and bounced all over the place. The difference between (say) a 309 GTi and an astra GTE is absolutely pronounced IMO. The Astras not unsafe it just can't be pointed as accurately or quickly as the 309 without special skills overcoming its handling shortcomings IMO. I tried an Astra GTE 16v in 1989 and got a 5 GT turbo instead whoich whopped its pants as a drivers car despite the worse engine. I tried an Astra GTE in 1992 and it torque steered worse than any car I've ever driven. I chose a renault 19 16v instead. In 1996 I tried a GSi and it understeered dreadfully, and bits broke on the test car. I chose a Clio Willy 3. in 1999 i tried a vectra GSi. It was incredible fun, fast, great handling BUT it nearly fell apart on a 48 hour test drive. I chose a Subaru Impreza turbo. I didn't bother trying a Vauxhall when I chose my Integra type R. I DID try the VX 220 this time around though and I've chosen it. I'm not an anti Vauxhall bigot, its just that IME They handle like dogs, are flimsy and don't do the fine engines justice.

[Beergut]

graet comment beergut!!! made me laugh!! just thinking it could be that dozy Jordan doing the writing!!!

Talking of Women, What's that one called that presents on Sky Sports, Torquay United nut ? Anyway, saw an article on her somewhere in the past few days with her VX200. Yellow or a Lightning, never seen her driving it around here though .

Nigel

[speedyK]

What makes the difference between a good and a bad experience is the behaviour of the dealer.

I agree totally. The VX220 for Vauxhall is like the A8 for the VW dealers. It's no better with Opel here in Switzerland. The dealers are used to selling bread-and-butter family cars. They've no enthusiasm – a car is just the product they happen to sell – could just as easily be shoes or burgers. They've got no experience with people who are petrolheads – it's totally alien to them. And perhaps they don't have to try too hard. What does the housewife care if there are a few greasy fingerprints on the Corsa – her kids will daub it with icecream, chocolate, etc. anyway – main thing is it starts and stops! But I do care if they treat my Speedster with similar carelessness.

There is a lot of badge snobbery everywhere, not just in Autocar and on TopGear – but the real problem is not the product in the VX/Speedsters' case, but these dealers who are out of their depth aand can't adjust to the expectations of people who regard their car as more than A to B transport.

Exceptions prove the rule!