18 replies to this topic

[Stormrider]

I've seen a video from Top Gear testing the VX220 Turbo, where Jeremy Clarkson says: I drove an Elise round this track in the last series... and it was VERY VERY understeering and this just isn't. As as conclusion of the video, you think that this car is better than the Elise for less money! Really, I couldn't believe it. After reading many many reviews and messanges in forums I've found out that they say the contrary: the VX220 has a high tendency to understeer. It's a contradiction. Moreover, shouldn't both cars handle and behave the same (same chasis, same tyres, same setup...). Most of the reviews say that it's handling can't reach that of the Lotus and that many of the elements added to the car such as abs or the different engine, makes it feel less sporty. Are Top Gear lying of are most of the guys I've read Lotus fans who try to keep their car above the Vauxhall?

Edited by Stormrider, 08 April 2006 - 01:51 PM.

[snoopstah]

I remember the Top Gear review saying that. It's interesting that Tiff didn't agree with that on the Fifth Gear review of the VX220 Turbo, saying: '...when you really push this Vauxhall, there is a little bit too much understeer turning in, which will inevitably snap into oversteer on the way out.' Reviewing the Lotus 111R in the same shootout, he says: 'Now straight away I'm noticing that this Lotus also turns into the corners a lot better, and doesn't swap to oversteer so much in the middle of them.' It's also worth bearing in mind that the press cars are likely to have been gone over with a fine tooth comb to make them absolutely perfect in terms of geo setup and the like. Interestingly, Tiff also said about the Turbo: 'It's an engine that you'd hardly know was turbo-charged - there's no hint of a turbo, and the power delivery seems to be almost seamless.' I've not driven a turbo, but from what I've seen here, that's not something that could be said about a VXT with the standard Vauxhall fuel map...

[walkes]

the elise has different wheel & tyre size to the vxt, hence it has different handling.

[snoopstah]

It has 16 inch front alloys, but the tyre profiles and widths are the same (175/55 front, 225/45 rear). The smaller front alloys will undoubtably reduce unsprung weight, but I'm not sure that would have a significant enough effect on its own.

[dw1]

I've not driven an elise but I'd be prone to believe Tiff in this matter - he is professional racing driver (and really knows how to drive, he's been there there and done that). Clarkeson is an entertianing motoring journalist. In terms of the turbo, I have driven one on the track in anger and strangely I didn't really notice the lag when I was 'on it'. Passengers also commented that on the track there was no big turbo thump and you didn't really feel it. So I know what Tiff means. When I drive on the roads I notice a lag.

[paulf-cam]

To be honest, almost every car review i've seen on top gear is diametrically opposed to the motoring press opinion (who i'm more likely to believe). I'd take their reviews and lap times with a pinch of salt tbh! Ta, Paul. p.s. i particularly like the bit (in the review you mention of the VXT) where JC says 'you can get it into massive slides, and hold them'. Of course you don't actually see him doing that in the videos and the VX is not a drift car and is very difficult to hold in a slide because of its mid-engined design - you need lightning quick reactions.

[R1 nur]

Clip is here:

TG VXT clip

[Jules_E]

Clarkson also incorrectly quotes a 0-60 time of 4 seconds for the VXT during the review. You might expect that from a weekend newspaper review, but not from a dedicated motoring programme!

[Purebob]

Stormrider it doesn't matter a flying fart what Jeremy Clarkson or Tiff needell says. Try a VX 220. If you love it buy one. If you want us to tell you it sh1t and understeers, thats not going to happen because it doesn' t. Its neutral, and is easily geo'ed to become a very twitchy machine indeed if you want. Buy a car because you love it, not because Clarkson like sit best. The VX220 was What car's sports car of the year 2 years on the trot regardless of price. Is the opinion of the best selling car magazine in Europe not enough for you ?

[juj_singh]

Stormrider it doesn't matter a flying fart what Jeremy Clarkson or Tiff needell says. Try a VX 220. If you love it buy one.

If you want us to tell you it sh1t and understeers, thats not going to happen because it doesn' t. Its neutral, and is easily geo'ed to become a very twitchy machine indeed if you want.

Buy a car because you love it, not because Clarkson like sit best. The VX220 was What car's sports car of the year 2 years on the trot regardless of price. Is the opinion of the best selling car magazine in Europe not enough for you ?

Well said that man

Far too many people buy cars on what other people have said, one car may suit somebody else far more than it does you. E.g. the highly rated clio 180, I'd never buy it 'cus the interior and driving position are dire yet Evo magazine rate it very, very highly.

Same goes for the focus RS, personally I think its brilliant and having been in one I rate it highly, yet it ook Evo 2 years before they admitted it was a good car, before that they rated it 3/5!

[snoopstah]

The VX220 was What car's sports car of the year 2 years on the trot regardless of price. Is the opinion of the best selling car magazine in Europe not enough for you ?

Not according to your criteria - I don't see why their opinion is any more valid than Clarkson's or Needell's...

I think the point is that most dealers and private sellers are not going to let you take a car on a track day before buying it - and it's kind of hard, and not very wise, to explore the handling limitations in an unknown car on the public road. This means that very few people are going to be able to buy their first VX220 and know how it handles when it's taken to the limit from personal experience. As such, all they have to rely on are reviews by the motoring press, and opinions by members on this site.

[Amoger]

'It's an engine that you'd hardly know was turbo-charged - there's no hint of a turbo, and the power delivery seems to be almost seamless.'

I've not driven a turbo, but from what I've seen here, that's not something that could be said about a VXT with the standard Vauxhall fuel map... 

I noticed that - no mention of a flat spot. But there doesn't seem to be any turbo lag either, so I guess if you're tracking it, floor it in first and then hold it up at about 6,000 rpm through the gears, you won't get any of the 2k-5.5k flat spot.

[Purebob]

The VX220 was What car's sports car of the year 2 years on the trot regardless of price. Is the opinion of the best selling car magazine in Europe not enough for you ?

Not according to your criteria - I don't see why their opinion is any more valid than Clarkson's or Needell's...

I think the point is that most dealers and private sellers are not going to let you take a car on a track day before buying it - and it's kind of hard, and not very wise, to explore the handling limitations in an unknown car on the public road. This means that very few people are going to be able to buy their first VX220 and know how it handles when it's taken to the limit from personal experience. As such, all they have to rely on are reviews by the motoring press, and opinions by members on this site.

That was my wholepoint Snoopstah - Who cares if naff what car gives awards or if smug TG or fifth gear hates it ? Its if WE like it thats important !

[snoopstah]

Sounds like we're violently agreeing

[walkes]

Just because the profiles are the same does not mean that the road contact size is the same. The larger wheel will have larger foot print maybe not by much but it will still be different. DW1 it does understeer and snap oversteer IMO, hence I changed the wheels at the front. Just look at the number of these things that have been crashed, but alot of it is due too lack of driver skill. I would agree somewhat with what with Clarkson says about the difference with the elise, but it would depend on how hard you try!! It is a brilliant car, but so is the elise, and after knowing what I know now I would have gone for the supercharged exige. However I will not be changing the car maybe just a few parts.... PS if you want to you can drift the rear end loads, but what's the point of ruining your tyres? I find that the flat spot is only there when i'm lazy, pulling in higher gears and slower speeds. When you rev to the limit and change, it is not a problem.

Edited by walkes, 08 April 2006 - 08:19 PM.

[jules_s]

I thought the S2 had the same tyre width but on 16"s?

[walkes]

the width is the same but the length will probably be different due to a larger wheel

[Mutt & Jeff]

Having driven a VX NA, a VXT & an Exige (Yota) I can tell you that for balance and handling the VX NA & the Exige are much closer than the VX NA & the VXT, but for ride comfort the VXT is much closer to the Exige. IMO the Exige has the best ride/handling balance but doesn't offer the torque of the VXT, the VX NA has a raw feel and feels more connected than either of the others. They are all great cars though, and driving any of them is a treat.

[pushover]

Strolling off topic a bit; does anyone else find it worrying that Clarkson(the UKs leading journo and very funny man..) often comes to completely different conclusions to the rest of the automotive press? Perhaps its because he is an average Joe when it comes to driving and not an ex-racer etc?? I don't know..