12 replies to this topic

[Jules_E]

All things being well, it looks like I'm going to be a dad by February of next year and, although I will be absolutely gutted to see it go, I have come to the conclusion that I will have to sell the VXT and get something with a few back seats. I would get a second cheap run around, but I think the VXT would see very little use and I don't have a garage to store it in. It would also be a choice between the VXT + a cheap run around that I would drive 90% of the time, or something better as a sole family car. For me, I think the latter option is best. I will post details of my VXT on the for sale pages tomorrow, but in the meantime would really appreciate your thoughts on the following two options that are available to me at the moment: 1. Leon Cupra R (2004, 16K miles, recaro seats, 225bhp so 0-60 in 6.9 at £14k) 2. Subaru WRX 300 (late 2005, 265 miles, limited edition scooby (300 made, hence name) with 265bhp prodrive pack as standard so 0-60 in 4.9 at £19k) I had a leon cupra (180bhp) before the vx and really liked it. I think it's a great alround package, although it obviously doesn't match the VXT for performance/the general experience. I drove the cupra r today and it felt very much like my old car with slightly better handling and a bit more power. In ever so many ways, it makes more sense than the wrx, being cheaper to buy (okay slightly different age), but also to run and maintain and I have found my local seat dealer always to be helpful. One thing I didn't much like, when I had a test drive today is that when you use full throttle in 1st and 2nd you really do feel quite a bit of torque steer, that's a little unnerving if you haven't experienced it before. I also drove the scooby today, to be able to compare it against the cupra and was expecting the power difference to be huge. In fact, the power delivery of the leon is much more immediate and comes in at much lower revs, so you really do have to work the scooby harder before its tremendous power becomes available. This even meant that in 5th on the motorway, the scooby felt slower to respond to a jab on the accelerator. However, what really surprised me was the difference in ride. I expected some difference, but the wrx just felt absolutely planted to the road, whereas the leon felt light and skittish in comparison. It's not that the leon is bad, but the wrx really does seem to be on rails. My wife also doesn't like the fact that the wrx uses more petrol (from an environmental view rather than financial). It only manages an official combined figure or 25mpg against 32mpg for the cupra r. Given that we only put 10k on the VXT's clock in 2 years as our sole car, the difference in mpg won't really hurt financially now, but I still wonder whether the govt will clamp down on cars like scoobies and can't fault my wife ethical stance on cars that guzzle fuel unnecessarily. What would guys go for? p.s. I have considered a few other cars and discounted them: new leon due in 2007 - will be too late for us. ford focus st - don't like the looks as much as the cupra and think the cupra is better value for money, giving almost the same performance. golf gti - personally don't like the new styling and still think the leon cupra r is better value. civic type R and astra vxr - quite nice, but 3 doors isn't an option. p.p.s driving home after all the test drives made me realise one thing. The VX really does knock the socks off all these other options and I really will miss it. I just don't think I can justify two lots of insurance and upkeep.

[adtmits]

Ive had the LCR225 and really liked it great car. However, its no WRX300. Its a difficult choice to advise you on as they are so different. If i had the option of a WRX300 then i think id be disappointed with the LCR........ but its a little like being able to afford a VXR and buying a NA... lol. Ad

[Jules_E]

Ive had the LCR225 and really liked it great car. However, its no WRX300.

Its a difficult choice to advise you on as they are so different.

If i had the option of a WRX300 then i think id be disappointed with the LCR........ but its a little like being able to afford a VXR and buying a NA... lol.

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In time, did you find that the torque-steer didn't bother you too much, or is it something that you disliked too?

[adtmits]

Ive had the LCR225 and really liked it great car. However, its no WRX300.

Its a difficult choice to advise you on as they are so different.

If i had the option of a WRX300 then i think id be disappointed with the LCR........ but its a little like being able to afford a VXR and buying a NA... lol.

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In time, did you find that the torque-steer didn't bother you too much, or is it something that you disliked too?

Any FWD powered car will have torque steer.... i didnt find it too bad, it does torque steer but it doesnt snatch at the wheel in the same way other cars do..... FocusRS etc.

Theyre a great car, composed, solid, well built, bags of torque and tuning potential.

[danyeates]

for me it's definately the Impreza. It's a phenominal car, my friend has one. Reliable, Japanese, torquey, masses of power, loads of space, it's just a great car. My friend has the new Impreza STI, he went from a Honda Civic Type R, to a Merc CLK 320 to an Impreza and he loves it. It's definately his favourite car.

[Teatowel]

From what you've written you sound like your heart's set on the LCR I would go for the Scooby, merely that I think that it's a hoot, even more so than the LCR, which I almost bought myself. It'll be more fun on a track too. It is bigger than the LCR too, more room to stash all the new sprogs stuff, and you'll need a lot more room than you'll ever anticipate!

[Jules_E]

Just found an official subaru brochure on the net for the wrx 300 that claims it has a combined fuel consumption of 30.7, which is loads better than other reviews have suggested. On the other hand, it also claims a 0-60 time of 5.9, which is significantly slower than I have read elsewhere. It makes me wonder how big the difference in fuel consumption actually is, if you don't cane the wrx the whole time. My heart tells me to go for the wrx, but my head the LCR. Part of the reason why it's such a hard call is that I think both cars that I have spotted are really excellent ones. The LCR has the recaro seats, which are really comfortable and hold you in brilliantly and I haven't seen another LCR second hand that has them. Perhaps it was an expensive option at the time that people generally didn't go for. Then, on the other hand, £19k for a wrx with 250 miles on the clock that's still in showroom condition (has been in the garage from new) also seems like a great buy.

[Jim_Cross]

I've just been out in my mate's LCR (225 model). I got him to accelerate hard away from a set of traffic lights with his hands off the wheel. There does seem to be a significant amount of torque steer going on It's definitely a quick car though - would keep up with an NA VX under acceleration (except off the line)

[Jules_E]

I've just been out in my mate's LCR (225 model). I got him to accelerate hard away from a set of traffic lights with his hands off the wheel. There does seem to be a significant amount of torque steer going on

It's definitely a quick car though - would keep up with an NA VX under acceleration (except off the line)

It's helpful to know that it was just the LCR I test drove over the weekend that does this. I also got torque steer on a straight stretch of road in 1st and 2nd.

My old 180bhp cupra didn't seem to torque steer at all and John and Plans mentioned that he hasn't experienced torque steer on the straight in his 210bhp cupra, but it does seem that the extra 15bhp is just a tad too much for the car to cope with without torque steer.

As much as I like the LCR, this is probably enough to make me go for the wrx instead. I am very tempted by the WRX300, but gues that it might also be worth trying a standard wrx too. I guess they are probably plenty fast enough and the fuel consumption must be a bit better than the WRX300's with the PPP fitted.

[Jules_E]

I've just been out in my mate's LCR (225 model). I got him to accelerate hard away from a set of traffic lights with his hands off the wheel. There does seem to be a significant amount of torque steer going on

It's definitely a quick car though - would keep up with an NA VX under acceleration (except off the line)

You are right that it does feel really quick and I love the look of the LCR, but I don't know whether I should be put off by the torque steer. Does anyone consider that this could be dangerous? Obviously, in the wet I would never push a car, so don't think it should be too much of a probelm, but I am concerned about how much it will affect the car, even in the dry. From the hour long drive I had, it didn't really bother me that much, but my wife found it seriously unnerving as a passenger.

For me, everything point at getting the LCR, but this one issue.

[MikeS]

I'm not sure if it has any bearing on your decision but something to consider with the Subaru is the simply horrendous depreciation they suffer from, mainly due to Subaru UK's pricing of them when compared to a euro import version, which is an identical car in every respect. The one you've looked at if listed at £19k is still £3.5k more than an import would cost you, so add on the PPP and it's still £2k cheaper for the import. Thing is, the UK car will be worth no more than the equivalent import regardless of any re-assurance the UK dealer may give you. They may say that you get 'free' servicing, 'free' extended warranty and 'free' breakdown cover but the reality is you're paying for all of it anyway. I take it that as a WRX 300 it's yet another 'limited edition' Impreza ?? I've run an Impreza as my everyday car for 75k miles, not once did it go wrong, breakdown or need anything under warranty despite doing over 20 trackdays in it and many of my friends have owned them with the same results. They are a stonking car without doubt and I'm looking at buying another, but there's no point in buying a UK car unless you're going to keep it forever to even out the depreciation. As an example, a friend sold his 1 yr old 10000 mile STi with PPP 2 weeks ago and only managed to get £15k for it, think he lost over £10k. Year old WRX's with PPP are ~£12k. Suggest if you are buying new, go to Motorpoint or Litchfield Imports, you'll get a *much* better deal. There's no difference to insurance if it's a euro import, nor is there any issue of servicing or parts as it's the exact same car (despite anything a subaru dealer may tell you). At least if you do buy an import, you have more choice for servicing as well, Subaru dealers charge mega bucks for routine servicing, whereas motorsport specialists charge far less for better service. Fuel economy, you'll be lucky to see 26mpg. HTH Mike

Edited by MikeS, 10 July 2006 - 09:56 PM.

[adtmits]

I've just been out in my mate's LCR (225 model). I got him to accelerate hard away from a set of traffic lights with his hands off the wheel. There does seem to be a significant amount of torque steer going on

It's definitely a quick car though - would keep up with an NA VX under acceleration (except off the line)

You are right that it does feel really quick and I love the look of the LCR, but I don't know whether I should be put off by the torque steer. Does anyone consider that this could be dangerous? Obviously, in the wet I would never push a car, so don't think it should be too much of a probelm, but I am concerned about how much it will affect the car, even in the dry. From the hour long drive I had, it didn't really bother me that much, but my wife found it seriously unnerving as a passenger.

For me, everything point at getting the LCR, but this one issue.

for me i didnt find it that much of an issue, suppose it depends how used to a FWD hot hatch you are...

I ended up in an LCR form a 172 clio and didnt find it an issue at all....