19 replies to this topic

[speedster]

Went over to my mechanic today to discuss the installation of a set of cams. His opinion is that a proper cam install is an engine out jobbie. He reckons that is the only way to get proper cam alignment. I thought this could be do without removing the engine. He says he will put them in without removing the engine but based on his experience the only way to align the cams 100% correctly is to remove the engine for access to the flywheel. Thing is this guy has been building engines for the rally and race circuit for years so he is not short on experience. Is engine removal overkill?

[Gary G]

With my limited knowledge I presume he is talking about cam timing and needs to see the flywheel to identify TDC? Can this not be seen unless the engine is removed?

[johnboy_78]

With my limited knowledge I presume he is talking about cam timing and needs to see the flywheel to identify TDC? Can this not be seen unless the engine is removed?

Again with limited knowledge, is there no way of seeing it with the rear wheel off and wheel arch liner removed? Can't remember what i could see when replacing myt engine mounts, but it might be possible? Or failing that, would rear clam off not give enough access. Both sound a lot easier than engine removal.

But then again neither may be an option?

Edited by johnboy_78, 24 August 2006 - 04:33 PM.

[speedster]

Sounds reasonable to me. Think he was going to set up a degree wheel and dial indicator

[markv]

I can't really comment, as I'm not sure if there are any clearance issue's. I did see the Z22SE opel instruction video, you would only need a special tool to lock the gears that drive the timing chain before removing the cams. Assuming the new cams go in the same way, it should be a straight swap. But then again, I've never done something like that nor seen it been done on a speedster.. Mark

[slindborg]

I'd say its not "really" an engine out job. as you say, get the TDC (on the exhaust stroke) of cylinder 1 with a dial gauge and rod down the plug hole. Then lock the gears etc in place, whip out the old cams, slip in the new ones and then dial in the correct lift at tdc for both cams. job done.... or is life not that nice to us lol out of intrest who is the engine builder?

[cicastol]

I'd say its not "really" an engine out job. as you say, get the TDC (on the exhaust stroke) of cylinder 1 with a dial gauge and rod down the plug hole. Then lock the gears etc in place, whip out the old cams, slip in the new ones and then dial in the correct lift at tdc for both cams. job done.... or is life not that nice to us lol

This procedure was done on my engine for cam installation,remember to double check correct timing after the job is done.

[Arno]

I'd say its not "really" an engine out job. as you say, get the TDC (on the exhaust stroke) of cylinder 1 with a dial gauge and rod down the plug hole. Then lock the gears etc in place, whip out the old cams, slip in the new ones and then dial in the correct lift at tdc for both cams. job done.... or is life not that nice to us lol

On the Z22SE AFAIK you have to put the engine at 90 degrees BTDC (If I remember correctly) before you fiddle with the cams and get the timing set up properly. One of the oddities of this engine.

Bye, Arno.

[cheeky_chops]

ask minime - he has cams with adjustable vernier pulleys (i think they are called... )

[slindborg]

I'd say its not "really" an engine out job. as you say, get the TDC (on the exhaust stroke) of cylinder 1 with a dial gauge and rod down the plug hole. Then lock the gears etc in place, whip out the old cams, slip in the new ones and then dial in the correct lift at tdc for both cams. job done.... or is life not that nice to us lol

On the Z22SE AFAIK you have to put the engine at 90 degrees BTDC (If I remember correctly) before you fiddle with the cams and get the timing set up properly. One of the oddities of this engine.

Bye, Arno.

most engines "should" be done at 90deg B/ATDC, but its not vital

[speedster]

ask minime - he has cams with adjustable vernier pulleys (i think they are called... )

Yea, he did mentioned the adjustable vernier pulleys. Morgan Dempsey Engines is the builder.

[rabidh]

The Z22SE cams have a big cut-out in the end of them so you can only get them on right or 180 degrees out. I guess the issue then is aligning to the chain, but i would have thought that would be pretty straightforward if you had the engine even roughly at tdc. I was going to do mine without taking the engine out and couldn't see any issues (before i realised the new ones had the same profile )

[speedster]

The Z22SE cams have a big cut-out in the end of them so you can only get them on right or 180 degrees out. I guess the issue then is aligning to the chain, but i would have thought that would be pretty straightforward if you had the engine even roughly at tdc.

I was going to do mine without taking the engine out and couldn't see any issues (before i realised the new ones had the same profile )

I suppose he must be use to working with high tolerances when aligning. Wonder what the power differences are between 100% accurate alignment and a not so well aligned cam?

[rabidh]

I didn't have my cams out but did have the rocker cover off - as I recall the chain was about the same pitch as bike chain - it would be pretty noticeable if you put it back together 1 chain link out. Vauxhall probably designed the locator for your average vauxhall garage monkeys. The engine might still run 1 tooth out - i imagine it would be rough though. More than 1 and I think you risk smashing the valves against the pistons Having said that we put the cambelt on 1 tooth out by mistake on an old ford pinto engine. Didn't really notice much - but then it was a bit agricultural

Edited by rabidh, 26 August 2006 - 05:21 PM.

[speedster]

I didn't have my cams out but did have the rocker cover off - as I recall the chain was about the same pitch as bike chain - it would be pretty noticeable if you put it back together 1 chain link out. Vauxhall probably designed the locator for your average vauxhall garage monkeys.

The engine might still run 1 tooth out - i imagine it would be rough though. More than 1 and I think you risk smashing the valves against the pistons

Having said that we put the cambelt on 1 tooth out by mistake on an old ford pinto engine. Didn't really notice much - but then it was a bit agricultural

Ok but he is talking about using adjustable vernier pulleys for minute adjustment. The chain links as you said are too coarse of any usable adjustment and he reckons every cam needs its own specific setup! Can you utilise adjustable vernier pulleys correctly with the engine in?

[rabidh]

Ok but he is talking about using adjustable vernier pulleys for minute adjustment. The chain links as you said are too coarse of any usable adjustment and he reckons every cam needs its own specific setup! Can you utilise adjustable vernier pulleys correctly with the engine in?

Ahh sorry - didn't see that. A lot of the verniers i've seen have little measurements on them, i'd think it would be easy enough to do accurately with the engine in place...

ebay vernier

Edited by rabidh, 26 August 2006 - 05:40 PM.

[paul_mck]

revival but any tips on fitting a set of pipers to my NA? Do I need the camlock tools etc?

[2-20]

https://z22se.co.uk/...ing-tool.13864/

[2-20]

The tool would help you a lot...
It can be done without it but more risk to loose the timing and then side cover has to be removed.

[chris_uk]

you don't “need” the locking tool but it makes it damn easier

You need to remove the chain like you would do a service and then the cam sprockets and theb your free to take the bridges off..

Take them off. Remove the cams. Place the sprockets onto the new cams and get them somewhere close to tdc..

Put the bridges back on, lock the cams. Tighten the sprockets and rebuild back up.. dead easy.