10 replies to this topic

[NOBLE]

looking to buy a marshall ATV50 but for now I only have a 10w starfire praccy amp. Im a big AC/DC fan and I wanted to replicate Angus's amp sound (old rock). I just cant seem to get anywhere near it with my starfire amp (has gain [overdrive button enabled], tone and volume only). I play with a gibson SG400 (sounds best in treble switch but not sure if this would be part of the amp setup - i.e which pick up I should be using with which amp settings). It probably a long shot just wondered if any of you guy were it to old rock stuff and could help. Thank very much in advance. Craig

[siztenboots]

Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and... Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten? Nigel Tufnel: Exactly. Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder? Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where? Marty DiBergi: I don't know. Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven. Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder. Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder? Nigel Tufnel: [pause, blank look and snapping chewing gum] These go to eleven.

[NOBLE]

But my amp goes to 10 or is it 11 nope its 10

[Jim_Cross]

Well, it really depends how picky you are about how close you want the sound to be. All amps sound different, and when you've only got a tone control you'll struggle to really change the sound of your amp a great deal. It also depends what era Angus sound you want - the Razors Edge tone was very different to the High Voltage tone. Also, don't forget that a guitar has a big effect on tone (and that Angus doesn't use a standard SG at all, he has custom pick ups etc). My edvice, for what it's worth, is that you won't get an Angus-like sound out of a practice amp, so just get a nice crunchy sound (not too much gain...Angus uses a lot less gain than you'd think) and just practice playing the songs right. Then there's the question of the amp you're aiming for. I've played several gigs with a house AVT150, and tried one in a shop once. IMO, you will not get an Angus tone out of that amp. Firstly, it's not a valve amp, and secondly it's not a good solid-state Marshall either. And thirdly, why so many f**king knobs?!?! If you want to keep the cost down and get that sound, I'd suggest finding a used Marshall 8080 (the precursor to the VSR100, which was the precursor to the AVT series). They sound much more like an authentic Marshall to my ears than the AVTs. However, for a true Angus sound, you need an all-valve Marshall. A used JCM800 will give you an awesome Back in Black sound, but they're pretty pricey these days, and very variable in tone and quality. Find a good one, and you'd sell your wife/kids/VX for it. Of the new amps, avoid the TSL series like the plague - totally devoid of any feel. The DSL50 gives a good AC/DC sound, especially for the higher gain stuff but can still do lighter crunchier sounds. Alternatively the re-issue JTM/Bluesbreaker series will give you an authentic early AC/DC tone with less gain but more feel. Of these valve options, the DSL50 is probably the cheapest - I would have thought you could pick up a DSL50 combo for not that much more than an AVT would cost new. And believe me, once you've had a good valve amp, there ain't no going back Alternatively, you could buy my Cornford Hellcat head and 2x12 cab when I move to London. All valve, hand-wired point-to-point British made, solid pine cabinet loaded with Celestion Vintage 30s...totally revalved at the end of last year, and a bargain to you sir at £1250. The best amp in the world, bar none, and I can assure you it can achieve an awesome Angus tone Oh yeah, about which pickup to lose. For lead work Angus definitely uses his Treble (bridge) pickup. I think for rhythm work he uses the Rhythm (neck) pikcup. It sounds to me like his bridge pickup is either wound hotter to raised up closer to the strings, to give a nice boost for solos when playing live. Whatever pickup he has in the bridge position also has quite a significant upper-mid boost in its response. Hope that helps Jim

[Purebob]

My daughter has a zoom effects pedal of some description that allows her to select trademark sounds at teh click of a button which is convincing enough for home or pub use IMO. Its fun clicking from James Hetfield, to EVH to Bob Marley with a toe switch !. Has a load of other effects too, like Wah, phasing an' ting. Just a thought

[Jim_Cross]

That's an interesting idea from Purebob. If it's just for practice, an amp modeller might be the way to go.

Here's a quick thing I hashed together with my Vox ToneLab SE, using the Marshall JCM800 amp and 4x12 cab models. This was recorded direct into my PC's sound card: AC/DC

The rhythm track (panned slightly left) uses the built into treble booster pedal. Gain is around 4.5, and the mids are relatively high. I left everything on the ToneLab exactly as it is throughout the clip - the change in gain comes purely from playing with the guitar's volume control and how hard I attack the strings.
It starts off with what I think is a late 70s AC/DC sound, and builds through to an early 90s heavier sound by gradually opening up the guitar's volume control.
I used the neck humbucker (a custom made Bare Knuckle Pickup) on my Organic Classic.

The lead track (starts around 1m20s) uses the built-in Tube Screamer pedal instead of the treble booster, as this boosts the mids some more. I also turned the gain up a bit. Again, changes in gain come from the guitar volume and pick attack alone.
At the end I carried on the lead channel, but went back to playing the rhythm so you can hear how it sounds using the lead tone.
For the lead track I used the bridge pickup (another custom made Bare Knuckle Pickup) on the same Organic Classic.

I don't think that's too bad for a first attempt at an AC/DC tone, especially as my guitar has a more mellow and full sound than the more trebley SG. I'm sure I could get closer or more specific tones with more tweaking...

You can probably pick up a ToneLab SE for around £300, and in 2 years I haven't scratched the surface of what it can do. There's something like 20 amp models, 12 cab models, 20-odd pedal models including wah, univibe, overdrives etc, modulation effects (various chorus, flange, tremelos etc), lots of delay models (including analog and tape echos), lots of reverb types, 2 expression pedals, control pedals, tuner etc etc etc.
Both that and the Pod XT do a good job of modelling amps for home use, and as you can hear from the clip, it does respond very well to guitar volume and pick attack, which is rare for a solidstate or hybrid unit (the ToneLab has a 12AX7 valve in it, but how much it really does I'm not too sure...)

Edited by Jim_Cross, 09 September 2006 - 06:47 PM.

[irmscher]

Dude i own a avt 100 go for that instead of a avt50

The realson for this is your looking for choice in tone, the avt100 has two distortion channels on the head the first one is old rock crunch and the second channel is more metalica with a very scooped out tone for some thrashy bashy. ALSO very important is that tone wise yo0u have the choice of a scoop button for both channels to digitaly change the sound you have Bass Middle and Treble and there is a Presence knob.

The Presence knob is very handy and clever as it changes the tone similer to the treble knob but wat is is used for is changing the sound for didfferent room sizes and changes in acoustics. It is very handy and is a must if your looking for that certain sound. Its for tweking very handy

You have the right guitar for AC/DC get the avt100 and you find what your looking for.

[NOBLE]

Some great advice. Maybe for now I could look at a modeller (the media clip sounded great) however I dont want to be spending £300. I looked on some reviews and found an item by Line-6, a toneport UX1. Cheap on ebay too. Will this do the job for now? I like the back in black, for those about to rock... tone the best. Craig

Edited by X8 CJN, 11 September 2006 - 08:27 AM.

[Jim_Cross]

I'm afraid IMO you get what you pay for when it comes to modelling. I've had 3 units - a Zoom 2020, a Boss ME-8 and the Vox ToneLab SE. The only one of those you'd get anything like an AC/DC tone out of is the Vox - the others were fine for high gain stuff or very clean stuff, but that classic rock crunch is very hard to model. I'd suggest holding out for a used ToneLab or POD on eBay

[NOBLE]

Jim. I picked up a Marshall 40V Valvestate SST (8040) of ebay for £83. Im going to run with this for a while. Have you got any pointers for which settings I should be using for that AC/DC sound?

Ebay Clicky

I only have a normal sized bedroom so I happy with the purchase. Will post back what it sounds like next week once I have played on it.

Thanks for the advice,
Craig

[Jim_Cross]

Jim. I picked up a Marshall 40V Valvestate SST (8040) of ebay for £83. Im going to run with this for a while. Have you got any pointers for which settings I should be using for that AC/DC sound?

Ebay Clicky

I only have a normal sized bedroom so I happy with the purchase. Will post back what it sounds like next week once I have played on it.

Thanks for the advice,
Craig

For the Back in Black type tone, you'll probably be wanting to use the heavier sounding channel (on the 8080 that was OD2, not sure what channels you get on the 8040).
My suggestion, as with all amps, is to start with all controls at 12 o'clock and work from there. With solidstate amps I usually end up with the bass up around 2pm, treble similar, mids maybe 11pm. Just experiment, and remember, not too much gain