15 replies to this topic

[Angelplayz]

As per title really. Just getting new disks and RS14s fitted to my car and wanted to know the best way to stop them sqeeling like a stuck pig! Doing a search there are mixed reactions to rs14s. Some say the always squeel, some say they have never. Any advice from those that have never had an issue? BTW looked on the box and only instructions were "Track use only"! Cheers guys in advance Dean

[SteveA]

According to TMS, TADTS.

[c18gmr]

Pagid bedding in

Had Pagids RS14 fitted yesterday and bedded them in as it says in this link

I thought i was going to go though the window on the first one

It did give me a headache tho

One of the back brakes were squealling driving in to work this morning but only after beening stuck in traffic for 30mins

Oh and very light braking make harder and no noise

Edited by c18gmr, 13 March 2007 - 05:36 PM.

[Angelplayz]

Brake to a standstill from 180 KPH (110mph)!! Great idea when I live in the centre of York!!! Oh well, late night drive for me then!!!

[The Knobs]

forget the noise, feel the braking power

[speedyK]

Pagid bedding in

Had Pagids RS14 fitted yesterday and bedded them in as it says in this link

That's exactly how I bedded mine in too (late at night ).

After some track work then road use, squealing appeared and drove me crazy when cruising.

However, worst part was that the Pagids overheat the stock N/A discs too easily in hard track use – needs cooling ducts

[Mr_M]

Ok - this is how it was explained to me.... The pagids work by creating a 'transfer layer' of pad material on the disks - this is part of what you're doing with the bedding in process. It's the 'like-on-like' friction between this layer and the pad material that gives them their stopping power. But... they are also very abraisive and the two friction surfaces wear very quickly. As you say they are primarily a track pad - when they're being used as designed (i.e. very hard) the new transfer layer is continuously depositied on the disk as the old one abraids away. In road use you do not brake hard enough (and get the pads hot enough) to re-depsit this friction layer properly - hence the onset of the squeak (although if they're been bedded in properly in the first place they soon recover once back on track). All in all a long way of saying TADTS I guess I'm lucky in being one of those who is very insensitive to these things. I never thought mine squealed (and used to say as much) until I took another VX'er out in my car a couple of weeks ago and he said "I thought you said they didn't squeal....!"

[c18gmr]

Brake to a standstill from 180 KPH (110mph)!!

Great idea when I live in the centre of York!!!

Oh well, late night drive for me then!!!

I dont think its says stand still 110mph to 50mph.

well i did mine yesterday the focus ST in front must thought i'd gone mad

[HRL]

Fancy some of these for myself. However, will "track use only" pads invalidate your insurance should it ever come to light? Just a thought...

[Mr_M]

However, will "track use only" pads invalidate your insurance should it ever come to light?

Can of worms time....

This has been discussed on here quite a bit in the past. In summary, iirc..... brake pads have to be 'E' marked to show they meet the relevant European standard. (As an aside this came about because of an incident a few years ago where cheap OEM brake pads were found to be made from compressed chicken litter...... seriously ). I believe that the criteria is that friction levels etc have to be within x% of OEM pads - the aim being to ensure pads meet a minimum safety standard. Pagids are not E marked, (and they're probably not with in x% of OEM either - but in a good way!), but this does not necessarily make them illegal. Upshot of all this is, as with any mod, declare it to your insurance company



To elaborate on the above, just found this in an old email from the Gits (Plans Motorsport)

Some facts on brake pads...

Regulation 90 (EC Directive) states that a pad has to be within 15% of the spec of original equipment item. This was to prevent motor factors selling sub-standard pads. RS14s are a ceramic pads and therefore outside this tolerance. The Mintex 1144 do have an R90 number. Ferodo DS2500 do not.

The RS14s are supplied by Vauxhall (although not fitted) and fitted by Lotus (although with stickers saying "not for road use").



HTH

[cyberface]

If you haven't bedded them in *to the letter* when you first got them, then the best way to avoid squeal is to throw them in the bin and stick some Mintex 1144s on. Even Mintex 1144s squeal if you don't bed them in properly. What I'm seriously concerned about is the Ferodo DS2500 (?) issue - I want better braking than my Mintex 1144s for track use, but I absolutely despise squeal and I love to use my car on road - so Pagids are simply not going to be acceptable. So I'm going to get the AP Racing upgrade from TMS - which apparently comes with Ferodo DS pads. Are these Ferodo pads both squeal bastards AND road-illegal AND grey-area-insurance-wise????? This would be a serious stopper for me. Presumably the AP Racing calipers can take other pads? How about Mintex 1144 in a bigger size for the AP calipers??? If anyone knows then please let me know - this is a big deal to me. To the OP - Pagid are for track slags. The guys using Pagid on the road without squeal either do all their braking in emergency-stop mode, or have followed the bedding-in procedure to military precision, or are simply white witches who've got appropriate spells to quieten the bastards down. I'd do that but the emissions from my cauldron get the local Greenpeace chapter picketing my tower.

[pfw]

There is what looks like a useful posting from a helpful chappy at Plans about halfway down this thread

http://www.vx220.org...8&hl=Pagid RS42

Pagid RS42 would appear to be a possibility if you want better stopping power than Mintex but less squeal? Never tried them myself though so YMMV.

[Angelplayz]

Well Now I'm pissed off!! They only had time to do the front Disks and Pads so at the moment my car feels Shite! The old Disks really are shot (corroded quite badly and now I have nice shiny new disks and Pagids on the front, but the old disks and 1144's on the back. The car just feels so out of shape at the moment it's unbelievable. before I could brake with no hands on the steering wheel and the car would come to a stop in a straight line. now it either pulls to the left or right (I guess as the brakes / Disks are like chalk and cheese at the moment) Also while bedding the fronts in, the ABS has been cutting in a lot more than it used to. Is this me being hyper sensitive to the braking now or because of the mis-balance? Getting the rears done on monday so hopefully this will sort it out (I must say that the braking feels better even with the in-balance) Before anyone asks, I am putting up with only getting the fronts done because I'm getting it done at my work for £20 per hour labour rate by a Vauxhall mechanic so I can't really complain! Can anyone just confirm to me that the reason for the differance in "feel" and balence when braking is just because of the differant Brakes / Pads front and rear? Cheers Dean

[Mr_M]

Are these Ferodo pads both squeal bastards AND road-illegal AND grey-area-insurance-wise????? This would be a serious stopper for me.

Must admit that was a surprise to me too - from my discussions with John he said that the AP 4 pots come with the Ferodo's precisely bacause the RS14's are track use only. I used the Ferodo's for a while after I had the 4 pots on and they didn't squeal for me - but the stopping power is not up to RS14 levels, (but still much better than stock). At the end of the day if you're fitting 4-pots you should be telling your insurance company anyway - if you tell them about the pads and they Ok them then there's no problem (my insurance company have always been fine even when I declared RS14's all round - they take the pragmatic view that better stopping power = safer so they're happy)

Pagid RS42 would appear to be a possibility if you want better stopping power than Mintex but less squeal? Never tried them myself though so YMMV.

I'm using RS42's on the front at the moment - they do still squeal (at low speeds). IMHO, their ultimate stopping power is not as good as the 14's but 'feel' is improved (has been useful in the wet this winter) and wear rates (both pad & disc) are a lot better than 14's or 15's

[coopa]

Pagid bedding in

Please can someone tell me what a 'recovery stop' is?

[slindborg]

a recovery stop is a nice slow gentle stop with little brake pressure to stabalise the temperatures after doing some crazy braking antics.. much like you drive the car gently after a huge thrash before stopping/switching off.... well i hope you do anyway lol. IME DS2500's are spectacular pads with little to no squealing in the application i saw them used in (on a road car) plus they stop like a goodun. Id defiantely keep them fitted... ok they might not be E approved but meh they are better than OE so no need to worry unless your far far far too annaly retentive for your own good.