There were a number of VXs there. I had a great time and it was good to meet some of you. Pity I didn't get to ride any passenger laps with you.
Arrived Saturday afternoon and did three sighting laps that evening - the thing that hit me on my first lap just after the corner T13 near the start, was 'bloody hell I'd forgotten how narrow this track was, and bumpy, and off camber'. I felt a bit like a fish out of water. It was a useful reminder to respect it and build up gradually.
Traffic on the Sunday was bonkers, the worst I've seen it. At 8.30am the queue to get on was all the way down the road to the underpass for the petrol station. It rarely eased up the whole day, not helped by 5 closures and the pent up demand that created, which lead to more inicidents on reopening. Every single lap had a yellow flag at some point if not two. There were a lot of Germans and probably as many Brits! That said with a bit of luck I managed to get 11 laps in. I also got chatting to some Caterham owners and gave a pax lap in mine which they returned the favour. Lovely.
Monday, a German bank holiday, was luckily not quite as busy as the previous day. Probably a combination of attrition of smashed cars, with enough crashed ones removed plus the temperatures striking off the less reliable ones and some put off by the prospect of it being as busy as the previous. I had a lie in as I was feeling tired and ambled my way to the track for around 11.30am. Over the course of the day got a further 10 laps in. There were less closures but still a reasonable number of accidents, a couple of ambulance jobs and one involving a biker
At 6.30pm shortly after the track reopened I got a couple of clearer laps done and with no yellow flags, my penultimate lap was deeply satisfying, flowing and largely unimpeeded. Reviewing my data logger at the end of the day the data feed below shows the car hit 139mph at the fastest point which on closer inspection was not at Flugplatz but at Foxhole. This suprised me as whilst the car felt very planted in that section, it felt quick but I didn't realise it was that fast down there. I think the car liked the slightly cooler evening air and was able to pull well on the hills. I hadn't set out to try to beat previous years times and was not consciously timing laps - the logger was for post event review and general geekiness. It was satisfying to know after the event that I had gone faster than last year by virtue of taking better lines and driving more smoothly (plus I think my suspension modifications helped give better handling and confidence).
The track is getting to the point of being too dangerous due to the volumes and the increase of adrenalin filled loonies who think they're in a playstation game until they hit the barriers! Add bikes into the mix and thats a recipie that explains the casuality rates. It's getting to the point where I'm considering going on private sessions. I wouldn't recommend going unless you're prepared to not do many laps and view anything above 10 in a weekend a bonus.
Hi Dave,
Good to meet you at the weekend. I have to agree it was a manic! Sunday was the worst, but Monday was much quieter. It helped having the racing at Spa where people went to spectate. Although being the German bank holiday I thought it would be busier.
Can't complain with the weather at all. Blue skies and sunshine each day. Fab!
I missed out on the GP track time, should have got there earlier. Another year
It does seem to be getting busier and more dangerous each year I agree. Private days may well be the way forward
Ste
Interests:Lightweight sportscars, Brunettes, Petrol & Beer.
Posted 16 May 2008 - 06:50 PM
Yeah good write up m8
The Sunday was pretty manic wasnt it! I was doint two laps, waiting out a closure, two laps etc all day. Wondered round taking pics during the closures.
Monday morning I was up very early and was second car on by about half a second lol. Got two laps straight in and went for a third but my brakes were starting to fade after that so I pulled off halfway round for my breakfast. Got two more laps in and then had a rest for a bit and then another two. Then the closures started. Luckily I got out for a lap and straight out for a second before the closure at the end of the day.
I was cream crackered by 6.30 on Monday. Got 16 laps in which is more than I thought I would. Basically as many as I could have with all the closures so pretty good weekend all in all. Car did brilliantly I thought I might regret not taking the VX but the megane is made for that place. In the places on the circuit I was confident to push quite hard there was very little stuff overtaking us. That said theres guys out there that know the track inside out and I freely admit I was passed by an mx5 and even a tdi focus!
Superb weekend all in all especially with the weather being so perfect. Just uploading some pics at the moment so I'll add them on in a bit.
yeah sunday was just to busy!! it was taking well over an hour to get onto the track and then the track was full!
its the 1st time ive been there with the vx and was very impressed with it
monday was the way it should be
There were a number of VXs there. I had a great time and it was good to meet some of you. Pity I didn't get to ride any passenger laps with you.
Arrived Saturday afternoon and did three sighting laps that evening - the thing that hit me on my first lap just after the corner T13 near the start, was 'bloody hell I'd forgotten how narrow this track was, and bumpy, and off camber'. I felt a bit like a fish out of water. It was a useful reminder to respect it and build up gradually.
Traffic on the Sunday was bonkers, the worst I've seen it. At 8.30am the queue to get on was all the way down the road to the underpass for the petrol station. It rarely eased up the whole day, not helped by 5 closures and the pent up demand that created, which lead to more inicidents on reopening. Every single lap had a yellow flag at some point if not two. There were a lot of Germans and probably as many Brits! That said with a bit of luck I managed to get 11 laps in. I also got chatting to some Caterham owners and gave a pax lap in mine which they returned the favour. Lovely.
Monday, a German bank holiday, was luckily not quite as busy as the previous day. Probably a combination of attrition of smashed cars, with enough crashed ones removed plus the temperatures striking off the less reliable ones and some put off by the prospect of it being as busy as the previous. I had a lie in as I was feeling tired and ambled my way to the track for around 11.30am. Over the course of the day got a further 10 laps in. There were less closures but still a reasonable number of accidents, a couple of ambulance jobs and one involving a biker
At 6.30pm shortly after the track reopened I got a couple of clearer laps done and with no yellow flags, my penultimate lap was deeply satisfying, flowing and largely unimpeeded. Reviewing my data logger at the end of the day the data feed below shows the car hit 139mph at the fastest point which on closer inspection was not at Flugplatz but at Foxhole. This suprised me as whilst the car felt very planted in that section, it felt quick but I didn't realise it was that fast down there. I think the car liked the slightly cooler evening air and was able to pull well on the hills. I hadn't set out to try to beat previous years times and was not consciously timing laps - the logger was for post event review and general geekiness. It was satisfying to know after the event that I had gone faster than last year by virtue of taking better lines and driving more smoothly (plus I think my suspension modifications helped give better handling and confidence).
The track is getting to the point of being too dangerous due to the volumes and the increase of adrenalin filled loonies who think they're in a playstation game until they hit the barriers! Add bikes into the mix and thats a recipie that explains the casuality rates. It's getting to the point where I'm considering going on private sessions. I wouldn't recommend going unless you're prepared to not do many laps and view anything above 10 in a weekend a bonus.
I agree; it's getting silly at the 'ring now. Completely stark bonkers in-fact
It's virtually impossible to justify going. Bikes + cars + massive differences in power, ability + regular oil spills + the fastest , narrowest circuit in the world. Glad you got back in one-piece. For me, it's past the tipping-point and I've made the decision to not go back on a public weekend ever again. Yup - it's that bad now
I started typing this reply intended as a 2-liner. But there's some history which - for those that are planning on going should know.
The thing with the ring is.....there's many "elephant in the corner" facts about the place which you really need to know before committing to lappage round the 'ring. And I'm not talking about the basics here like torquing your wheel nuts. Nope. This is the nasty stuff which you don't really read about unless you go to the ring and even then, people shrug it off with the "it won't happen to me attitude"
So...for comparison's sake....I started going to the 'ring in 2003. Since then I have been on x7 separate occasions and completed over 170 laps.
The volume of traffic the place attracts has sky-rocketed. Net/net: idiot ratio increases proportionately > crashes increase disproportionally higher.
I remember on our first trip in '03, seeing all of the exotica (which you still see every weekend to be fair) and having a whale of a time - like anyone on their first trip there - I was hooked. Yes......... it was/is a tough circuit, and was stark raving scary to drive first time out but, the *relative* courtesy (at the time) of the drivers / bikers made it a joy to drive, especially after 10 laps or so. That said, there had been 2 fatalities on the day prior: a Ferrari 360 had gone off and both occupants had not survived. As it happened the day before we arrived it didn;t really register "it was someone else".
On my second visit in '04 - same weekend as Clarkson took the Jag round for Top Gear (see pic below) - it was altogether a busier affair - 2 to 3 closures per morning / afternoon - and it was as early as then that the facts of the place begin to dawn on me.
On the saturday afternoon of the 2004 trip (Clarkson was there the next day), we were queing to go out on the circuit.......the orange lights on the barriers flashed, the red light came on, there was the "noise" then the barriers came down with the (sadly altogether too-familiar) "Der Nordschliefe ist gerschloffen" (closed).
As we gathered in the paddock. news filtered in as cars began to trickle back in: an M3 had gone off at Schwedenkreuz. For those that don't know, Schwedenkreuz - depending on what car you are in, you can be approaching it anything between 120 and 200mph - there is a crest - which in the VX I now take-off over - after which you brake, and turn-in to an off-camber, 110mph apex left-hander. If you lose it there, it's curtains. The M3 overtook a brit VXR Astra on the way in, lost it, and finished barrel-rolling at Aremberg.
You can see the bend in this video:
Start watching at 1min 32 secs. Schwedenkreuz is at 2mins 4 secs onwards. Schoysman is doing 170mph on approach - in a road car (Skyline R-34).
The circuit was closed for at least another 2 hours.
We sat in the paddock - I noticed Police cars coming in, and a helicopter. Thought nothing of it at the time. Then news came in that the driver had perished. Not good. It really affected me. I had left my wife at home that weekend and it really hit me what was going on. Someone went out through that barrier and they ain't coming back.
I came back the next yearz with a full roll cage in the car (I had an Evo back then). I felt safer but, the accidents still happened. We had a doctor in our group in a Skylline R32 - ironically - he was first on the scene when a Civic Type R lost it at the bottom of Fuchsrore. He wasn;t wearing a lid. Game over. It went on. There was another awful crash that year when a yellow 993T tried passing a Lean R on the run down Fuchsrore. Result: carnage:
That year and following years, we visited with a group of bikers from Byrne-up, since changed to Byrne-up Eurotracks. . Sadly in early 2007, we got news that x2 of these guys we had shared great times with had been killed on the approach to Hohe-Acht. They went down on some coolant dropped - by all of cars - an almost brand new 996 GT3. You just cannot cater for that. Since then -Simon Byrne has reitred. He has had 1 too-many death-defying accidents at the ring and has called it a day.
I thought 2005 & 2006 was bad.
Then last year it just got crazy. I went 3 times. Each was planned to be on a weekday to make best use of: likely less nutter-brits there, and likely less nutter cloggies coming over (no offence meant)
In July it was *ok*. There were a couple of long closures (all biker related) We treated this weekend as a go-easy - no pressure to lap. We mountain biked round the circuit, did only 1 or 2 laps in the hope the monday would be the best day.
It was completely mobbed. Hardly got in any laps.
In September, we came back (group of 6 cars or so). Had a great time but there were some serious accidents.
We came back in October, in the hope of finding a monday of sparse traffic. Arrived on the saturday. Here's what happened:
17:00hrs: Circuit due to open. Queue back to P'klause.
17:30hrs. Moved 1 car length. Took helmet off, went for a beer.
17:50hrs. Sitting in bar outside P'klause, heard "Nordschielfe ist gerschloffen"
18:10hrs. Much traffic comes back to hotel. "Biker down at Galgenkopf (final bend before Dottinger Hohe finish straight). The circuit had been open for 14 minutes. A brit biker went over the wall at Galgenkopf and straight into a sign-post. Fatality. Circuit closed.
Sunday am:
07:00 ish - watched TV - Lewis understeer into the gravel in the pits during Chinese GP.
08:30: Circuit due to open. Mist everywhere. It's cold. Wait for a bit - it will be carnage out there.
10:00: Head down to paddock. Circuit has been closed for an hour. Someone is off at Wipperman. Bad crash. Hellicopter called.
11:00 - Circuit Open. I am one of the first out, but not quite the first. I head down the run from Flugplatz to Schwedenkreuz - spectators (luckily) waving clothes around. I slow. BIIIIIIIIG crash. The UK Focus ST Owners club are there and one has stopped. A Belgian ST has stacked it at the apex. Driver ok. I keep going albeit at a slower speed.
1 min later, exiting Ex Muhle I am feathering throttle as circuit is still wet under the trees from last night's dew (beautiful day). I let past a Blue Megane R26. He's not going fast but neither am I. I've seen enough crashes this lap, aside, R888's "ne marche pas dans le cold wet stuff". I stick with him up Kesselchen thinking "OK it's time for me to overtake you again, track seems dry and my tyres are up to temp."
Klostertal is soapier than Jordan's baps. Biiiig moment at 80 mph. Back off. Exiting Karussel up to Hohe acht - volunteer biker_marshall waving his flag. I slow. Megane overtakes me (twat). Red Evo IX has completely stacked it. All the pics were posted here but they are gone now: http://www.lancerreg...ad.php?t=173287
Marshall goes mental at the Megane and take his number. Exit hohe acht, turn into Wipperman #1: more waving.
Black UK ITR has stacked it. Driver ok. Megane also stacked it. Went off on the oil. Part of me thinks "you deserve it for not slowing down" other part of me is sorry for him. All of this in x1 lap. It'll take ages to clear, i think. Straight back to hotel for tea and strudel.
1pm: Track opens. Carnage. When we get to Spa (2 days later) a 340R owner tells us on the run down from Metzgesfeld, a biker is all over him. He (340R driver) is held up in traffic having previously overtaken the biker. Biker wants to come past. Miss-hit-miss: 340R drops biker. Braking into Wehrseifen the biker comes up the inside (!), outbrakes himself, front takes off over inside kerb. Lands 20 meters later in tarmac. Cannot stop. Head-on into exit barrier. Fatality.
In the meantime, I find one of my friends has had a death-defying spin at Lauda kink: turned in on the white line )still damp even after lunch in the autumn. Lost it on turn-it at 130mph. Didn't stop spinning until Bergwerk. Miraculously only scraped the rear clam! But did flat-spot all 4 R888's......
2-3:30: Visit scene of miracle spin. Wow at how he survived. We both admit that 8min 10 sec laps are plenty fast-enough. As we go faster, there are bumps which you find which weren't there before. Don't want to go any quicker in an Elise/Elise derivative.
4pm track opens. We leave it 1hr to go out. Convoy of me + x1 random pax , following x1 Honda Elise.
It's a fast but controlled lap. Not too much traffic. Exiting Wipperman, we catch a biker: all show - titanium sliders - but not going that fast.
He won;t let us past. Both on it out of Eiskurve. Plunging down to Pflantzgarten - notice much waving from spectators on left.
Begin to lift-off. Notice much commotion +_ dust ahead. Hit brakes hard to scrub off speed before the jump and all i hear is the awful sound of a biker going down: foot pegs and handlbars meet tarmac.
An Astra GTE shed has dropped his oil all the way from Eiskurve, finally pulling off the citcuit at the exit of Pflantzgarten. Biker in front of Rob drops froint end on the oil. No good.
x4 bikers are already down and there are x3 cars in the barrier with them.
The biker cartwheels thorugh the gravel like a motoGP accident. Rob - ahead of me - takes inside line over the jump and is fine. I am on a trailing brake over the jump and lose back end on the oil.
The spectators must have thought i was an utter cock - i still had my arm up in the air (roof was off - of course) to warn cars behind me of the accident and I was completley sideways in some wierd drift moment, with my arm in the air whilst bikers were looking at the bottom of their feet in the gravel trap wondering what miracle doctor would snap their legs back the right way
I was sliding towards a recovering biker in the gravel. And there was nothing i could do about it. The oil was like ice.
Miraculously, the oil line ceased and the tyres gripped and slung me back the other way, into a 180 spin. I stopped and pulled over. All ok. Told to carry-on. Ambled back to paddock. All the bikers surcvived but sadly there were some serious injuries.
That night in the bar we laughed it off I think it was a perverse coping mechnism for defying a huge accident. My wife and children would not agree i thought. What type of father am I being right now?
Monday (supposed to be a quiet day)
Circuit opens at 08:30.
Closed at 09:00. It' like this through the day. We go out and are building up to some nice laps when, exiting schwedenkreuz on a committed lap, there are several people standing on the exit waving at us (idiots) to slow down. x2 cars have gone off in a mahoosive accident. One was in the barrier and the other - a rent-racecar.de 335i was in the gravel at Aremberg. It was like a giant croupier had sprayed dirt all over the track. Trying to lift on the exit was impossible. Cue enormous slide.
That's it i think. You can't cater for oil-slicks. Organised trackdays with marshalls permanently in-situ will at least mean you get warned about an oil slick before committing to a turn at 100mph.
When you go to the 'ring your first time out, you're aware of all the accidents - it's a given. And, if you are like me you think "it happens to other people - maybe irresponsible or lack-of-talent individuals, but not to me.
So.....the first few accidents you see are startlin.
But......then it becomes the norm. Last time I was there there were by all accounts, anything between 4 and 9 people killed. And you start norming to it. It's crazy. Absolutely absract and utter madness.
My 2 girls have a vested interest in seeing me again. This is not responsible behaviour for a parent I keep tellng myself.
I vow at that moment the next time I come back will be an RMA day or a midweek day which is completely un-related to a weekend to avoid cocks-ontrack.com; if at-all.
net/net: I'm confident in my own ability (just about) and of coping with cockish behavious but if there's an oil slick, it's game over. And there's one too many of them happening at the ring every weekend - when you go out your first time you are simply not aware of issues like this: Porsche drops coolant With pictures
....and recently, another shocking incident as a brit jag goes out a spews oil all the way up Mutkurve/kesselchan, causing a huge pile-up
Some pics, to give you a contrast.
This was taken late afternoon on a Sunday. Only one closure all-day, and we were all having a few cuppa's after doing about 15 laps = everyone was knackered and the circuit was still open for another 90 minutes!
[attachment=19605:IMG_1400.jpg]
This pic was taken mid-afternoon the next day (Monday). As you can see, the top paddock is 1/3 full. It was a glorious day; harldy saw another car or bike on any lap throughout the day.
[attachment=19606:2004_0917AO.jpg]
Very good write up Stu7.
I was out there at the same time as DW1 - who kindly gave me a couple of pax laps.
I went out there with a cautious attitude and even so nothing could prepare you for the feeling of danger as gt3s/bikes tear past you. We saw plenty of accidents but I didn't see anything as serious as you mentioned.
Absolutely loved it but am very tempted to make my next trip a midweek one.
Interests:Lightweight sportscars, Brunettes, Petrol & Beer.
Posted 31 May 2008 - 07:27 PM
Good write up there Stu. I've been lucky on my trips not to really have seen anything other than shunts into the barriers by cars although Bikers have died on both my visits to the ring.
I think as you mentioned the main issues out there are lack of basic courtesy (you never even get a wave for letting someone pass you unless its a brit). The other big big issue I have noticed is that basically when the ring is open it is for "tourist driving" in my opinion this is to go out there and enjoy the circuit at a reasonably quick pace, get round safe and go home. However the ring has IMO been hijacked by people that really should be on private trackdays as they are absolutley flying round, timing laps (very silly) thinking they are ring heros when all they are really doing is endangering other people who are out there to enjoy the experience.
The other big problem (in terms of the ring staying open not in terms of attitude) is bikes.
I know that the public driving side of the ring was originally discovered by bikers but really I think the point has come where bikes either need to be run on seperate days to cars or banned alltogether. They make up 30% of the numbers there but account for a lot higher percent of closures and fatalities. A lot of this is obviously not their fault with oil spills and the like but TBH all the bikers I've met out there are chasing times again which with the place as busy as it is I think makes people take unneccesary risks.
I think a few simple steps (Basic briefing for first timers - even 5 minutes would educate) would sort a lot of problems out at the ring but they have to be careful as it is basically a public road. If they start treating it like a trackday it could loose its toll road status and still end up closed.
At the end of the day you just have to go in with your eyes wide open. IMO going in there with the attitude to enjoy it, not setting any lap records and leaving your ego in Dover you will be ok. You do have to be on your guard for the idiots and playstation heros though.....
Good write up there Stu. I've been lucky on my trips not to really have seen anything other than shunts into the barriers by cars although Bikers have died on both my visits to the ring.
I think as you mentioned the main issues out there are lack of basic courtesy (you never even get a wave for letting someone pass you unless its a brit). The other big big issue I have noticed is that basically when the ring is open it is for "tourist driving" in my opinion this is to go out there and enjoy the circuit at a reasonably quick pace, get round safe and go home. However the ring has IMO been hijacked by people that really should be on private trackdays as they are absolutley flying round, timing laps (very silly) thinking they are ring heros when all they are really doing is endangering other people who are out there to enjoy the experience.
The other big problem (in terms of the ring staying open not in terms of attitude) is bikes.
I know that the public driving side of the ring was originally discovered by bikers but really I think the point has come where bikes either need to be run on seperate days to cars or banned alltogether. They make up 30% of the numbers there but account for a lot higher percent of closures and fatalities. A lot of this is obviously not their fault with oil spills and the like but TBH all the bikers I've met out there are chasing times again which with the place as busy as it is I think makes people take unneccesary risks.
I think a few simple steps (Basic briefing for first timers - even 5 minutes would educate) would sort a lot of problems out at the ring but they have to be careful as it is basically a public road. If they start treating it like a trackday it could loose its toll road status and still end up closed.
At the end of the day you just have to go in with your eyes wide open. IMO going in there with the attitude to enjoy it, not setting any lap records and leaving your ego in Dover you will be ok. You do have to be on your guard for the idiots and playstation heros though.....
Cheers Guys
Jonnyboy: I'm with you on this one. Sadly it will never happen.
It's all to do with how the circuit is run. In German road law as you know, it's classed as a "Public toll road" - which is why:
a) Police turn up whenever accidents involve more than one car
and.... Occasioanlly they sit on Adenau Bridge (Breidscheid) and speed gun people with an LTi 20/20. Yes...you can be done for speeding on the 'ring!
I have a pic somewhere but there's actually a speed limit sign as you approach the downhill left-hander @ Breidscheid.
So....where is all this leading?
Nurburging GmBH never publicise the number of deaths at the circuit but there have been newpapaper reports over the years quoting shocking figures, which exclude fatalities after they have left the track (eg in hospital).
Nurburgring GmBh are continuously fighting against the local councillors who want to track closed for TF days. But, as soon as a councillor states their intention to do so, they get voted out, as it's worth so much for the area in tourism.
So....the conversation then flows to "let's make it safer by putting marshalls out there, more gravel traps, bike-only days etc etc. The issue then is, it stops becoming a toll road and normal track-day rules apply ie: the circuit has a liability (whereas presently it doesn't) and you have to go through briefings, registration and so forth like we do now in the UK (which i think would be a good thing at the ring) and then the public days are now more.
The circuit fears if that happens, they'll never fill the place but now given it's global reputation, if they ran proper trackdays there I think they would
a) Make more money the regular visitors would still want to visit
and...
c) tourism would be unaffected - people would still come to watch.
Maybe it will happen. The queues are crazy now. Saw a post y'day on Northloop.co.uk about a group who went last week or week before, at 8am on the sat, sun and monday, there qere queues to get into the circuit longer than the main access road. 3 years ago you would never see that - at 8am the paddock had about 50 cars in it maximum!
Interests:Lightweight sportscars, Brunettes, Petrol & Beer.
Posted 31 May 2008 - 09:39 PM
yeah the pic of my megane above that was at about 8.20. By the time I'd got in and done a lap they were queueing right up the hill to get in.
I think there must be some scope for them to use it more on a trackday basis as I know people like RMA do run proper trackdays there.
We were talking to the owner of the hotel about the situation and as you say theres big local pressure from residents/evironmentalists and safety groups for the TF sessions and indeed the ring as a whole to be closed but an interesting thing is that nurburgring gmbh only actually own 10% of the operation and the rest is owned by the state. Obviously that amount of income is handy for a local council hence they basically cover up fatality figures by not counting any where people die in hospital and not on the site itself.
The site round the GP circuit is being developed in a major way at the moment. I think they are building a theme park and some other stuff there. My guess is that when all this stuff is up and running and turning a profit that will be the end to TF days at the ring. Ultimatley in this day and age it cant go on forever. I'm just glad I've been lucky enough to experience it while its still there.
Just re-read my mammouth post - I apologise for a number of typo's which inadvertedly ended up looking a bit "street talkin' jive-ish" - I'd had about 3 hefty large glasses of malt whisky at that point (Glenmorangie Cellar #13: I can recommend it ) and it made my editing skills a little jittery
eg: "Startlin" should have been "startling" , "I came back the next yearz" should have been "I came back the next years" etc etc....
Anyway, hoping that jonnyboy + dw1 + my posts have been informative for those considering going / already been. I don't mean to scare the shite out of anyone, it's an awesome awesome place and is a unique trip to have in the calendar
Stu
It does seem to be getting busier and more dangerous each year I agree. Private days may well be the way forward 
Ste
monday was the way it should be 
I think it was a perverse coping mechnism for defying a huge accident. My wife and children would not agree i thought. What type of father am I being right now?
Occasioanlly they sit on Adenau Bridge (Breidscheid) and speed gun people with an LTi 20/20. Yes...you can be done for speeding on the 'ring! 
