23 replies to this topic

[Adam_B]

will they work together? and more importantly is it safe? Ta

[MaDFreeBiRD]

You would need harness holes my man So i would have said new seats would be on the cards, also the support bar and obviously the harnesses. Well worth it IMO, i had them on my last VX was really nice and snug. It gives you alittle more confidence.

Edited by MaDFreeBiRD, 06 June 2008 - 03:01 PM.

[subseamac]

yes if you make suitable holes in the seat and use wraparound harnesses to go through the seat. Fitting harnesses that sit either side of the seat/headrest is asking for trouble as they can slide apart. this has been debated several times, but most harness manufacturers including schroth etc strictly advise against fitting harnesses unless they go through seat cutouts. that's IMHO I'm sure others will say harnesses on the sides of the seats are fine, but I disagree I had my seat harness cutouts done by frogman on here - aviation interiors near gloucester -. he's done an excellent job. They look stunning and they perform perfectly. he's good value too although you need to leave your seats with him for a few days and he'll give you a loaner. HTH

[Jase_MK]

Crap mobile pic of my DIY attempt.

[subseamac]

Crap mobile pic of my DIY attempt.

p.s Your schroth harness looks inverted. The yellow stitch-on rectangle should always be on the inside. It's part of the anti-submarining system

[Muncher]

I'm running harnesses on standard seats with no cut outs, I don't believe they're essential on harnesses which are bolted onto the bar.

[Mr_M]

Crap mobile pic of my DIY attempt.

p.s Your schroth harness looks inverted. The yellow stitch-on rectangle should always be on the inside. It's part of the anti-submarining system

I think the man has a point..

 schroth_warning.gif   19.01KB   3 downloads

[Mr_M]

I'm running harnesses on standard seats with no cut outs, I don't believe they're essential on harnesses which are bolted onto the bar.

- very common setup in a lot of elises / exiges too.

The point of the cutouts is (obviously) to stop the harnesses spreading in a crash - bolting in obviously achieves the same effect, but because the 'fixed point' is further back (i.e. a couple of inches behind the seat back, rather than directly at the driver's back) there is more room for the harnesses to spread at the point at which they're loaded (your shoulders). If the harnesses are really, really, really tight shouldn't be an issue

You just need to check very carefully with your harness manufacturer as a lot of them specifically recommend not using this setup. iirc the Schroth ASM harnesses are one such exclusion (because of the way the ASM system works)

[Muncher]

With the way mine are fitted there's no way the two shoulder harnesses would spread in an accident unless they were very loose.

[VIX]

and more importantly is it safe?

Ah, that old chestnut! Worth a search, apparently they may or may not kill you!

[Mr_M]

With the way mine are fitted there's no way the two shoulder harnesses would spread in an accident unless they were very loose.

Sorry Paul - that post wasn't meant to be having a go at you - and apologies if it came across as such (in my defence I had been for quite a while before I got on here last night so my writing possibly wasn't the best)

The point I was trying to make is that anyone using this set up needs to be sure that they're using harnesses which are approved for use in this way. Some aren't - for very good reason.

Although you also raise another good point - sadly I lose count of the number of people I see who, whilst they may or may not have a safe harness / bar setup, are in a worse position than they would be with three point belts purely beacuse they don't know how to do a harness up properly If it doesn't hurt - it's not tight enough

[Muncher]

and more importantly is it safe?

Ah, that old chestnut! Worth a search, apparently they may or may not kill you!

No offence taken! I realise ideally the best thing to do is have cutouts, I decided not to as in the long term I'm not sure if I'd go for carbon seats or Probax ones or similar. As you say, they need to be done up very tight, having them loose is pointless. Having lived with mine for a fair while I'd say 5 point are certainly pointless, apart from being uncomfortable I don't see how you could slide down out of the harness in any case if they are done up tight.

[Silent1]

I've got bolt in harnesses going through cutouts, mainly because the angles will be closer to the correct angle for fitting them, if they go around the seat i'm not sure they'll fit so well.

[myhifi]

I'm running harnesses on standard seats with no cut outs, I don't believe they're essential on harnesses which are bolted onto the bar.

It is just a matter of size really. If you are tall enough, harness as long as they are bolted to the bar are fine. Slots fit best small and medium sized people and can be dangerous on our seats for tall ones because the shoulders will be much higher than the slots : not good in a front crash when harnesses tighten.

I run slots, fine for my size and most people in the passenger seat.

One last thing also, is considering the attach point for the lap belts of the harnesses. Speedster seats are not optimum for this.

[StealthVXT]

Crap mobile pic of my DIY attempt.

p.s Your schroth harness looks inverted. The yellow stitch-on rectangle should always be on the inside. It's part of the anti-submarining system

I think the man has a point..

 schroth_warning.gif   19.01KB   3 downloads

Sorry am i being very thick but what the hell is submarining on a harness???

[techieboy]

Submarining is where you slide out from underneath the harness/seatbelt. It's why most cars have seatbelt pre-tensioners that tighten up the belts when it senses a crash.

Edited by techieboy, 11 June 2008 - 01:00 PM.

[Dynamo]

Submarining is where you slide out from underneath the harness/seatbelt. It's why most cars have seatbelt pre-tensioners that tighten up the belts when it senses a crash.

Yep, the Schroth anti submarining system involves the yellow tab you can see in the picture on this thread. The yellow part basically gives way when a heavy load is applied (e.g. during a crash) which allows the inside shoulder harness to lengthen slightly. I think the idea is that your torso comes forward slightly, preventing submarining under the lap belts.

I'm not sure why the yellow belt has to be on the inside shoulder harness (i.e. the one towards the middle of the car), but that's what Schroth states you must do.

[jasvxt]

Don't really see the point unless your a hard core track day/racer, wouldn't use them on the road, too much messing, and a lot slower to exit the car in a hurry.

All you need for the occasional track day CG lock

Edited by jasvxt, 11 June 2008 - 08:15 PM.

[john_s]

Don't really see the point unless your a hard core track day/racer, wouldn't use them on the road, too much messing, and a lot slower to exit the car in a hurry.

They're easier to get out of than a seatbelt, but do take a little longer to put on.

[mandarinvx]

Don't really see the point unless your a hard core track day/racer, wouldn't use them on the road, too much messing, and a lot slower to exit the car in a hurry.

All you need for the occasional track day CG lock

I used to think the same (really like my CG-Lock) - until I had a px lap in a Honda'd Exige with harnesses fitted a couple of weeks ago, and they felt great (and I have a harness bar sat in the garage too )

The Exige didn't have cut-outs (S1)