5 replies to this topic

[Muttley]

A friend of mine is adding this this Aoen GT3 (Audi 1.8T Engine)! Whats your opinion? HE has been told another 30-50bhp, still cannot get my head around spraying water into the manifold! A must for you turbo owners. Lots of question last night regarding my water/methonol upgrade. Here are some facts for you What is Water/Methanol Injection? Water Injection or Water Methanol Injection, is a process by which a mixture or water and Methanol are injected into the fuel/air mixture on the way to the combustion chamber. Water/Methanol Injection provides "Chemical Intercooling" inside the cylinder. By injecting water and methanol in a finely atomized spray, the water is able to evaporate under the high temps of a firing cylinder, and when the water evaporates, it takes heat with it. The methanol also has a cooling and octane boosting effect as it burns. How does water/methanol injection allow your engine to produce more power? The production of more power by a water/meth injected engine is not a by-product of the water/meth mixture alone. You must tune for it to get the most out of it. The evaporative effects of the water/meth mixture, plus the octane boost, allows you to run more advanced timing, and boost, thus increasing power. Methanol having the octane boosting effect, you can adjust your AFR's with tuning, and be able to run the same AFR as a pump gas tune with less fuel added to the fuel map of your engine managment. When the system is spraying, methanol is making up for the fuel that gets taken away during the tuning process. You end up with about same 12.5:1 or so AFR with less pump gas added, you also increase knock resistance, and due to the octane boosting effect, you can add timing and boost to make more power safely. What is Methanol? Methanol is the simplest alcohol compound, comprised of one carbon atom, one oxygen atom and four hydrogen atoms (CH3OH). It is also referred to as wood alcohol, carbinol and methyl alcohol. It is poisonous, flammable and relatively volatile. It has no taste or color, but it does have a slight scent. Methanol is used as a fuel and an antifreeze, and to make formaldehyde. It is also added to ethanol to make it unpalatable so that it avoids taxes on drinkable alcohol, as ethanol without a denaturant of some sort is consumable by humans. Methanol was first discovered in 1661, though it had been used without isolation by peoples as far back as the Egyptians in their embalming processes. The name comes from methy, meaning wine, and hyle, meaning trees. Methanol is used as a fuel source by some, though its use is limited by its volatility. The main area in which one sees methanol being used is in many top-end racing engines. The vehicles in the Indy 500, for example, are all run on methanol. This methanol is usually produced using a fossil fuel as the synthesis gas, either natural gas or petroleum. Many renewable energy advocates see methanol as an ideal fuel source, with distinct advantages over hydrogen. When methanol is made from materials such as wood, it is often called bioalcohol. The theoretical use of methanol as a widespread fuel source has given rise to a theory describing what is known as the methanol economy. In the methanol economy, the common fuel is methanol, with non-renewable fuels having a minority share or being entirely unused. George Olah, a winner of the Nobel Prize, is a strong advocate of this path. Advocates point out that in contrast to hydrogen, methanol is relatively cheap to produce, can be manufactured with little or no waste, is efficient to store and can be made from sources other than fossil fuels. Also, while conversion to a hydrogen economy would require major changes in infrastructure, methanol could be phased in relatively easily because of its interoperability with fossil fuels. One can mix methanol with gasoline to produce hybrid fuels while making the shift in economy. Unfortunately, methanol is very toxic and contains a number of hazards. It is less volatile than hydrogen, but also much heavier, which could allow contamination in the case of spills or tank leaks. A wide range of groups are constantly looking for new and innovative uses for methanol, and it seems apparent that it will have a role in the energy economy of the future. Whether that role is as the key player or a supporter to hydrogen or some other fuel source remains to be seen. Can you run just water injection without methanol? Yes, but you will not be able to take advantage of the octane boosting properties of methanol, thus you will get cooling from the water, but no increase in octane. Without methanol, you may not make as much power, as it acts as a detonation inhibitor, and you may not be able to run a leaner AFR as you could with it. What supporting upgrades are required for water/methanol injection? At minimum you should have some sort of engine management that can be tuned, I.E. able to adjust timing, boost, and fuel curves, to compensate for the octane boost, and cooling effects, and be able to take advantage of them to make power. Otherwise you can run water/meth injection on a stock car with tunable engine management. You do not have to have after-market intakes, exhausts, intercoolers, or strengthened internals. Although with more supporting mods that already increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the more power that can be had. Don't you just want it

[boghouse]

Steve; Steve; Steve......Leave yours alone with Stage 2. You will panic far too much about it if you add in the Water/ Methanol mods Leave it to The Scoob and let's enjoy some pax rides through France in 09 ( And seeing as I missed out this year I reckon I should be 1st on the list for 09) Oh....and it's an AEON ....and a rather special one at that (but you know that bit)

Edited by boghouse, 04 December 2008 - 09:57 AM.

[Muttley]

Steve; Steve; Steve......Leave yours alone with Stage 2. You will panic far too much about it if you add in the Water/ Methanol mods

Leave it to The Scoob and let's enjoy some pax rides through France in 09 ( And seeing as I missed out this year I reckon I should be 1st on the list for 09)

Oh....and it's an AEON ....and a rather special one at that (but you know that bit)

Am not even thinking about it, will be very happy with stage 2.

[Alps Pacino]

Just adding a water injection kit will actually lose power, people fit them so they can up the boost as it raises the point where det occurs, HOWEVER you should never use water injection to stop det as if the water runs out then the chances are the engie will melt. I have water injection on my 350bhp ibiza track car but its only on there to keep things cooler like act's etc

[SteveA]

I'm pretty sure Manus on here uses Methanol/water injection.

[siztenboots]

TBH, it would be a lot easier to run it on E85 , ign timing can run almost the same, but you need bigger injectors to avoid running lean at high rpm

Edited by siztenboots, 04 December 2008 - 01:39 PM.