37 replies to this topic

[Lou1s Cyphre]

TMS Carbon Fibre High Flow Bootlid. Must be in excellent condition. Ian

[Muncher]

I'm after one as well, if you can find one I'll buy it then sell it straight back onto you if you like as I only need it for a little while.

[Lou1s Cyphre]

I'm after one as well, if you can find one I'll buy it then sell it straight back onto you if you like as I only need it for a little while.

Deal.

Price dependant of course.

[Thorney]

So basically you're copying ours and making your own. Nice.

[JG]

Nice.

Certainly somewhat underhanded.

Is TMS still making them?

[Thorney]

Underhanded? THats not even a tip of this particular iceberg.

[Muncher]

Underhanded?

THats not even a tip of this particular iceberg.

John I was lead to believe this particular item was a Lotus prototype, which was subsequently never used and that is where the design came from?

[Thorney]

lol, the original bubble idea was from Lotus which we then enhanced and designed for the VXT and manufacturered. Even if we didn't then its still just blatant stealing, but then you're not doing this 'commercially' are you? What a laugh.

[james141]

Sorry someone had to!

Edited by james141, 12 February 2009 - 03:32 PM.

[Muncher]

lol, the original bubble idea was from Lotus which we then enhanced and designed for the VXT and manufacturered. Even if we didn't then its still just blatant stealing, but then you're not doing this 'commercially' are you? What a laugh.

Like you John, I quite liked the outer design of the Lotus prototype from the VX sprint car, so intend to replicate it and obviously will have my own take on what to do for the inside, much in the same way as you did no doubt. What's the problem with that?

Primarily I want it for my own car so will be making a version to fit on that (not a VXT). If a few other people want it and it helps go part way to paying for the mould and my bootlid then I will stick a couple on eBay.

Can you please clarify precisely what theft I am responsible for?

[Lps]

What about the carbon fibre hardtop's you used to sell John? These were direct copies from OEM ones were they not? or did you have Vauxhall approval to copy their design as nothing was altered to make it any different other than the materials used to manufacture? or is this all pot, kettle, black? shame they were so damn expensive as they looked bloody lovely!

[Thorney]

Nothing wrong with free enterprise and nothing wrong with using OEM parts to create a mould from. However I guess I'm a little old fashioned in the idea that if something is made for commercial gain then people should be up front about it, Muncher (and I've had this conversation with him in the past so I'm not saying anything he doesn't already know) has a commercial enterprise (ie he sells VX stuff for a profit) in creating these things and yet he refused point blank to contribute anything to the site that he uses to promote these items, a point which I felt was unfair. His retort was that he didn't do it for profit, which fankly is balls and he knows it. I've just ignored it but to openly post that he wanted to copy one of our parts tomake his own is just a little too much?

[Muncher]

Nothing wrong with free enterprise and nothing wrong with using OEM parts to create a mould from. However I guess I'm a little old fashioned in the idea that if something is made for commercial gain then people should be up front about it, Muncher (and I've had this conversation with him in the past so I'm not saying anything he doesn't already know) has a commercial enterprise (ie he sells VX stuff for a profit) in creating these things and yet he refused point blank to contribute anything to the site that he uses to promote these items, a point which I felt was unfair. His retort was that he didn't do it for profit, which fankly is balls and he knows it. I've just ignored it but to openly post that he wanted to copy one of our parts tomake his own is just a little too much?

John, of course we have had this discussion before. Your definition of a commercial enterprise is somewhat different to my own, in my mind it is all a question of scale. Other than a group buy thread for the toe links which I made a nominal sum from (though in truth only the very last one and that meant I broken even on all the time, effort money I put in, not to mention 3 kits which had got lost in transit which I covered). If/when I make some more of those available, they will go on eBay.

Again, I've got a load of anti rattle door pins which I had left over, iirc I only made £2.50 per set I sold from those.

Hardtops I haven't had any produced in quite some time now (12 months +) as such I haven't promoted them on here (short of 1 post in the for sale section along with a load of other things that I wanted rid of from my loft).

For the boot lids and bonnets I haven't attempted to hide the fact that I'd make them available to others if they worked out well. The thing is, these are things that primarily I want for my car, if for instance I can buy a bootlid, pay for it to be shipped across the country, pay for moulds to be made, perhaps pay for a second set to be made, pay for one or two sets of prototypes to be made, then I can finally have the part I want. If at that point I decide to sell them maybe 5 people from here see them and want one I may have almost broken even, I may have made a small profit but then that could equally cancel out something like bonnet which cost me money because they didn't work out or no one wanted one.

It's not as if I've just turned up to sell things here, you may have got that impression but I'm not going to get rich from selling a couple of bootlids that I've had made. Given the time involved I'd much rather just do a weekend of overtime and earn far more money that way, but I don't because I quite like trying to make things like that, that's all. If doing that kind of thing was such a money spinner I'd be knocking out parts for all kinds of cars, but I don't, it's just stuff that I want for my own car and if I can put in some time effort and money which eventually makes that part free to me, what's the problem?

My point is, if the overall net gain is minimal then what is the need to pay to "advertise" here? If the costs of running the forum are in the region of £150 per month for example and TMS pays these, claims back any VAT and sets this off against corporation tax it really isn't costing you THAT much compared to the revenue it brings in for you, either directly or indirectly. You must gain an awful lot of business from this forum indirectly, there is clearly a business case for funding them.

If you were then to ask for a contribution of perhaps £30-50 per month to "advertise" for things which don't really make me much money at all then that's completely disproportionate. If you were to compare our respective profits against contributions towards running costs then my contribution, pro rata would be in pence!

Again, I don't see how borrowing a bootlid from an owner is actually directly advertising anything at that stage?

"Nothing wrong with free enterprise and nothing wrong with using OEM parts to create a mould from" - in that case what is the difference between taking a mould from an OEM part, or an aftermarket part like the TMS bootlid?

"I've just ignored it but to openly post that he wanted to copy one of our parts tomake his own is just a little too much?" - But isn't that what you did with the Sprint bootlid?

The reason I want to make a mould from one is it won't fit my car, so I need to change it and who knows I may be able to improve it further...

[The Batman]

"Nothing wrong with free enterprise and nothing wrong with using OEM parts to create a mould from" - in that case what is the difference between taking a mould from an OEM part, or an aftermarket part like the TMS bootlid?

"I've just ignored it but to openly post that he wanted to copy one of our parts tomake his own is just a little too much?" - But isn't that what you did with the Sprint bootlid?

if they can do it i dont see why you cant do it mate.

[Guy182]

However I guess I'm a little old fashioned in the idea that if something is made for commercial gain then people should be up front about it,

bit like creating an 'owners club' ?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

However I guess I'm a little old fashioned in the idea that if something is made for commercial gain then people should be up front about it,

bit like creating an 'owners club' ?

I think you will find the ownwers club came first, the tuning company came later.

[VIX]

However I guess I'm a little old fashioned in the idea that if something is made for commercial gain then people should be up front about it,

bit like creating an 'owners club' ?

I think you will find the ownwers club came first, the tuning company came later.

Details, details. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

[Thorney]

Muncher, makes no difference to me mate, site isn't mine anymore, but your abuse of the process is one of the reasons I've sold it, it gets tiring talking to people who are just full of it when it comes to enterprises like this. As regards your 'return' well sorry mate, I know what you were making on the roofs and to suggest its 'covering your costs' is both laughable and insulting. There is nothing wrong with making a profit, but be honest about it. As regards the Sprint bootlid, well I asked to borrow it and Stuart Harris (Vauxhall) said fine so long as it wasn't damaged which it wasn't. So there is a World of difference on how we treat people. Guy, you're a dick, always will be and as I dont need to mask what I say anymore I look forward to calling you a dick at every opportunity I can.

[VXJON]

Guy, you're a dick, always will be and as I dont need to mask what I say anymore I look forward to calling you a dick at every opportunity I can.

Wow personal abuse



Guy Id like to take this opportunity to also call you a dick



















* actually you always come across very helpful and pleasant but fcuk it, nothing like some bitching and whining to liven the working day

[Thorney]

lol, fair point mate. Lets just say that my hands are no longer constrained from owning the site and considering the personal abuse I've received from some people I'm not going to act all nice if I get it again. I've bitten my lip so many times over the last couple of years and the sheer bullsh*t that certain members are spouting all dressed up as 'fact' that its laughable. Pretty much every morning I've come in and Ian has said "have you seen what xyz has said about something or other" this time - all presented as some kind of facts is just absurd. We just ignored it but from now on I wont, if something is just plain wrong I'm going to challenge it, and now no-one can say oh TMS own the site he'll just delete the thread (which never happened). I'm not a moderator, admin of any kind just a member of this site so as long as I abide by the rules I'll post what I want now.