23 replies to this topic

[manus]

I'm working on the Racelogic Video Vbox set-up.

Part of it is working out-of-the-box , front- and rear camera, GPS inputs and speed indicator: (touch the HQ button)
I think the circuit overlay function will be no problem as well, as its data is coming from the units own GPS.

I want to create a VX220 dash overlay with a layout similar to the STACK unit, when I get the RPM signal input to work, should be no problem, but....

The part that I can't get to work is the RPM input from the CanBus. None of the supplied values seem to work. So far I've tried GM_RPM1, GM_RPM2, GM_RPM3, LOT_Engine_Spd and with different Baud rates 500KBit and 1Mbit.
There are so many parameters which have to be correct to get it working:
Name:
Units:
Scale:
Offset:
Minimum:
Maximum:
ID (hex):
DLC:
Start bit:
Data type:
Std/Xtd:
Data format (Intel/Motorola):

Too many options to try them all. Anyone done this before?

If the RPM signal is working, next step could be Throttle Position, Coolant Temperature, Intake Air Temperature, Battery Voltage and more...

Edited by manus, 08 April 2009 - 07:12 PM.

[theolodian]

I rather doubt that there's a canbus on these.

[slindborg]

since canbus dosent even exist.... bar as an incorrect name for a CAN system. the VX has no explicit CAN H/L lines in the loom, you might get lucky and find the pins on the ECU that do the job and you can then piggy back into the plug. the OBD connector has K Line (KWP2000) protocol comms in there not CAN

[manus]

I rather doubt that there's a canbus on these.

Cable is supplied by Racelogic (think it connects to pin 6 and 14 on the OBD-II connector, CANhigh and CANlow). Canbus interface is documented.
My problem is not only that every car manufacturer has its own thought on data modeling over the CANbus 'standard' interface, but there is little or no documentation available on how they do it.
Seems like the only way is reverse engineering it using a CANbus logging device.

[manus]

since canbus dosent even exist.... bar as an incorrect name for a CAN system.


the VX has no explicit CAN H/L lines in the loom, you might get lucky and find the pins on the ECU that do the job and you can then piggy back into the plug.

the OBD connector has K Line (KWP2000) protocol comms in there not CAN

Does that mean that the VX220 has different non-complient protocol?

[slindborg]

since canbus dosent even exist.... bar as an incorrect name for a CAN system.


the VX has no explicit CAN H/L lines in the loom, you might get lucky and find the pins on the ECU that do the job and you can then piggy back into the plug.

the OBD connector has K Line (KWP2000) protocol comms in there not CAN

Does that mean that the VX220 has different non-complient protocol?

its a non CAN protocol... dosent mean its non compliant (in the relam of OBD rules)

It just means your VBox probably wont work with the engine data.

[manus]

since canbus dosent even exist.... bar as an incorrect name for a CAN system.


the VX has no explicit CAN H/L lines in the loom, you might get lucky and find the pins on the ECU that do the job and you can then piggy back into the plug.

the OBD connector has K Line (KWP2000) protocol comms in there not CAN

Does that mean that the VX220 has different non-complient protocol?

its a non CAN protocol... dosent mean its non compliant (in the relam of OBD rules)

It just means your VBox probably wont work with the engine data.

No similarity with the bus on the Astra model 2004, as Racelogic explains these work with engine data to Vbox?

[slindborg]

since canbus dosent even exist.... bar as an incorrect name for a CAN system.


the VX has no explicit CAN H/L lines in the loom, you might get lucky and find the pins on the ECU that do the job and you can then piggy back into the plug.

the OBD connector has K Line (KWP2000) protocol comms in there not CAN

Does that mean that the VX220 has different non-complient protocol?

its a non CAN protocol... dosent mean its non compliant (in the relam of OBD rules)

It just means your VBox probably wont work with the engine data.

No similarity with the bus on the Astra model 2004, as Racelogic explains these work with engine data to Vbox?

is the 2004 Astra H/MK5 one? if so then that would have CAN on it as it would be a "new" technology compared to the "old" stuff in the VX220/Astra G/MK4

[james141]

You can definatly get RPM from the OBD connector as I can show it on my Scanguage 2 Not sure what data format etc it is in and if the Vbox will read it tho. Edit: Also the Scanguage is not that reliable at the higher update (baud?) speeds so I would try something middle to low

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 11:39 AM.

[slindborg]

You can definatly get RPM from the OBD connector as I can show it on my Scanguage 2

Not sure what data format etc it is in and if the Vbox will read it tho.

Edit: Also the Scanguage is not that reliable at the higher update (baud?) speeds so I would try something middle to low

that would have been over KLine (KWP2000), a somewhat retro (in the automotive world) comms protocol

[manus]

You can definatly get RPM from the OBD connector as I can show it on my Scanguage 2

Not sure what data format etc it is in and if the Vbox will read it tho.

Edit: Also the Scanguage is not that reliable at the higher update (baud?) speeds so I would try something middle to low

that would have been over KLine (KWP2000), a somewhat retro (in the automotive world) comms protocol

Think I need an 'RLVBMIM01 Mini Input Module' to make it work. That's not good, as this is an expensive unit just to get an RPM signal in the VBOX

[james141]

You can definatly get RPM from the OBD connector as I can show it on my Scanguage 2

Not sure what data format etc it is in and if the Vbox will read it tho.

Edit: Also the Scanguage is not that reliable at the higher update (baud?) speeds so I would try something middle to low

that would have been over KLine (KWP2000), a somewhat retro (in the automotive world) comms protocol

Ahh ok makes sense seems a shame the Vbox cant pick it up as it looks brilliant and definatly not cheap!!

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 04:44 PM.

[james141]

On the dogcam web site it says:

With the purchase of the additional ODB cable you can connect the v-box to most modern car's computers and log data from the car in real time. This can be used to overlay graphical data to show you things like RPM and engine temps etc.

also

This cable goes from your car's ODB2 connector to the Video V-Box for logging extra data.
Most cars can output info about RPM, engine temps and fuel consumption and this can be displayed by video overlay in real time on the video v-box.
Please don't hesitate to contact us with your car make/model and year and we will let you know exactly what info can be logged from your ECU.
This cable adds extra functionality to the video vbox system. It is not essential to have this cable if you do not want to display data from the ECU

So im sure if a £150 Scanguage can read the RPM from the ODB port a £1500+ bit of kit should be able to!!

Have you contacted them direct?

Edited by james141, 09 April 2009 - 04:51 PM.

[slindborg]

On the dogcam web site it says:

With the purchase of the additional ODB cable you can connect the v-box to most modern car's computers and log data from the car in real time. This can be used to overlay graphical data to show you things like RPM and engine temps etc.

also

This cable goes from your car's ODB2 connector to the Video V-Box for logging extra data.
Most cars can output info about RPM, engine temps and fuel consumption and this can be displayed by video overlay in real time on the video v-box.
Please don't hesitate to contact us with your car make/model and year and we will let you know exactly what info can be logged from your ECU.
This cable adds extra functionality to the video vbox system. It is not essential to have this cable if you do not want to display data from the ECU

So im sure if a £150 Scanguage can read the RPM from the ODB port a £1500+ bit of kit should be able to!!

Have you contacted them direct?

lol just because something designed to talk to KLine works at £150 dosent mean something that ISNT designed to talk to Kline that costs £1.5K should.... if it wasnt in the spec, and lets face it KLine is slow and sh** for this job, then it shouldnt be cause to complain


can you not feed a VR sensor straight into the VBox?

[manus]

On the dogcam web site it says:

With the purchase of the additional ODB cable you can connect the v-box to most modern car's computers and log data from the car in real time. This can be used to overlay graphical data to show you things like RPM and engine temps etc.

also

This cable goes from your car's ODB2 connector to the Video V-Box for logging extra data.
Most cars can output info about RPM, engine temps and fuel consumption and this can be displayed by video overlay in real time on the video v-box.
Please don't hesitate to contact us with your car make/model and year and we will let you know exactly what info can be logged from your ECU.
This cable adds extra functionality to the video vbox system. It is not essential to have this cable if you do not want to display data from the ECU

So im sure if a £150 Scanguage can read the RPM from the ODB port a £1500+ bit of kit should be able to!!

Have you contacted them direct?

By mail, yes. Haven't done VX220's, they're very cooperative but not sure on the bus. I'm welcome to visit for a test but that is a long way from home for me.

Having done another 10 tests or so back here, I think there is no signal at all on pin 6/14, so no CANbus option as standard on the VXT220.
The Scangauge works OK, but only gives RPM values every 1 or 2 seconds, not the near-real-time resolution I was looking for.

Next step is to find an 'sort of affordable' RPM-to-CAN device, as this is the only supported interface on the Vbox. Optional extras could be welcome, like temperature/pressure inputs

[techieboy]

By mail, yes. Haven't done VX220's, they're very cooperative but not sure on the bus. I'm welcome to visit for a test but that is a long way from home for me.

Having done another 10 tests or so back here, I think there is no signal at all on pin 6/14, so no CANbus option as standard on the VXT220.
The Scangauge works OK, but only gives RPM values every 1 or 2 seconds, not the near-real-time resolution I was looking for.

Next step is to find an 'sort of affordable' RPM-to-CAN device, as this is the only supported interface on the Vbox. Optional extras could be welcome, like temperature/pressure inputs

The guy who owns Racelogic is a friend of a friend. He almost made it to a meet on different forum I'm a member of last week but then got a seat in a race somewhere at the last minute. He was going to bring along a video v-box for us to have a play with. I'll see if I can get any suggestions from him.

The only problem with the Scangauge is that it's trying to populate 4 "gauges" in realtime and the slow KWP2000 protocol just doesn't seem to be able to cope with that. When I can be bothered to hook the stuff up, I run a bluetooth OBD device (OBDKey) that just outputs the values I select to an external logger to create an overlay with. If I just select the rpm values, I reckon the OBDII port outputs about 3-4 readings per second, which does make the rpm overlay look a lot smoother. If I then also enable TPS logging the RPM logging starts to "jerk" around a little.

[slindborg]

CANbus

grr CAN (no bus)



and correct the VX220 (n.a or turbo) isnt CAN equipt

[manus]

The guy who owns Racelogic is a friend of a friend. He almost made it to a meet on different forum I'm a member of last week but then got a seat in a race somewhere at the last minute. He was going to bring along a video v-box for us to have a play with. I'll see if I can get any suggestions from him.

Racelogic have this 'RLVBMIM01 Mini Input Module' that converts RPM signals (amongst other inputs) to CAN. Beautiful piece of equipment, should be plug-and-play, defenitely a must-have, but expensive (somewhere in the GBP1000 price range). Such a device would do the job. Perhaps they have (future) a low-cost alternative for this unit?

[manus]

Some good news from Racelogic today :

Racelogic is "shortly to release firmware and software that will allow customers with "non-VCI" video VBOX's to be able to use MIM01's. As a consequence you will not need to upgrade to a full VCi Video VBOX in order to use a MIM01. In summary you would only incur the cost of a MIM01 if you want to be able to log analogue, digital and thermocouple input signals. "

Meaning that I can create my own little canbus with the Video-VBOX on one end and a RLVBMIM01 on the other side in the engine bay. Will be able to build a full 'VX-220-like' dashboard soon

Results so far:
Wielspin at 1:46 and 2:57 (see reversed camera)

Edited by manus, 20 April 2009 - 05:18 PM.

[manus]

Some good news from Racelogic today :

Racelogic is "shortly to release firmware and software that will allow customers with "non-VCI" video VBOX's to be able to use MIM01's. As a consequence you will not need to upgrade to a full VCi Video VBOX in order to use a MIM01. In summary you would only incur the cost of a MIM01 if you want to be able to log analogue, digital and thermocouple input signals. "

Meaning that I can create my own little canbus with the Video-VBOX on one end and a RLVBMIM01 on the other side in the engine bay. Will be able to build a full 'VX-220-like' dashboard soon

Found myself a used(?) MIM01 in Sweden for a "budget-price" (<GBP400 ). Received it today.
Have to wait for the firmware update to use the full potential but think I'll give the RPM signal a try this weekend.

Does anyone have a bitmap image of the stack layout I can use?

Edited by manus, 01 May 2009 - 05:57 PM.