24 replies to this topic

[Boss VX]

Had a great day yesterday at Castle Coombe but was gutted to get overtaken by a friend in his SLK AMG (350bhp V8). Dont wanna get too competative but most of us do hey! From watching my footage back he clearly catches me due to my poor performance in dealing with traffic. He then takes a wild move past 2 other cars into a chicane and its all over. 2nd time out. Similar scenario but half the cars and didnt worry us at all. It seems to be a balance between how much you wanna risk your car and others! I know the general rule is only go by when the person in front indicates but this is rarely the case at action type days (at least the ones ive been to). All the 3 people that got past me were very aggressive and it was more a case of move or be hit! Any advice as this must not happen next time!

[Sutol]

at brands they have blue flags not that anyone takes any notice of them It seems that most briefing sessions go in one ear and out the other for most peeps on track days. Still not worth risking your wheels for mate by trying to squeeze through.

[Ben Cole]

Competing on track days is bad news IMHO. Just let him go and enjoy carving the corners and not worrying about rozzers on the straights.

[snoopstah]

Had a great day yesterday at Castle Coombe but was gutted to get overtaken by a friend in his SLK AMG (350bhp V8). Dont wanna get too competative but most of us do hey! From watching my footage back he clearly catches me due to my poor performance in dealing with traffic. He then takes a wild move past 2 other cars into a chicane and its all over.

2nd time out. Similar scenario but half the cars and didnt worry us at all.

It seems to be a balance between how much you wanna risk your car and others! I know the general rule is only go by when the person in front indicates but this is rarely the case at action type days (at least the ones ive been to). All the 3 people that got past me were very aggressive and it was more a case of move or be hit!

Who organised the day? A decent track-day organiser should crack down on 'wild moves' and aggressive driving (and also on people who don't move out of the way/let people past, to prevent people getting annoyed)

Overtaking should be by consent only, so short of persuading people to let you by a little quicker there shouldn't be much you can do to improve your way through traffic (simple things like headlights on, HIDs, can help you be seen though). Obviously it depends on where you catch people up -- you can be unlucky and catch everyone up on the way into the corners, and if your mate caught everyone up on the way out of corners onto a straight then he'd get past cars in less time than you.

Was his 'wild move' into the chicane by consent (i.e. did the other cars indicate to let him through)? I would *not* be impressed by someone who overtook into a chicane without consent. Risk your own car all you like, but put a dent in someone else's and you'll have a very irate driver to deal with, not to mention the obvious financial implications.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I've heard quite alot of bad reports from these 'action days'...... What are they like really?? Are they really that rowdy??

[Yellow_or_black?]

put a dent in someone else's and you'll have a very irate driver to deal with, not to mention the obvious financial implications.

I was told by CCI when I got track day insurance that it's every man for himself ie if someone dings your car - you have to claim on your insurance, and can't on theirs. Is that not the same for normal insurance that includes track days, if an accident were to happen on track?

[Boss VX]

Had a great day yesterday at Castle Coombe but was gutted to get overtaken by a friend in his SLK AMG (350bhp V8). Dont wanna get too competative but most of us do hey! From watching my footage back he clearly catches me due to my poor performance in dealing with traffic. He then takes a wild move past 2 other cars into a chicane and its all over.

2nd time out. Similar scenario but half the cars and didnt worry us at all.

It seems to be a balance between how much you wanna risk your car and others! I know the general rule is only go by when the person in front indicates but this is rarely the case at action type days (at least the ones ive been to). All the 3 people that got past me were very aggressive and it was more a case of move or be hit!

Who organised the day? A decent track-day organiser should crack down on 'wild moves' and aggressive driving (and also on people who don't move out of the way/let people past, to prevent people getting annoyed)

Overtaking should be by consent only, so short of persuading people to let you by a little quicker there shouldn't be much you can do to improve your way through traffic (simple things like headlights on, HIDs, can help you be seen though). Obviously it depends on where you catch people up -- you can be unlucky and catch everyone up on the way into the corners, and if your mate caught everyone up on the way out of corners onto a straight then he'd get past cars in less time than you.

Was his 'wild move' into the chicane by consent (i.e. did the other cars indicate to let him through)? I would *not* be impressed by someone who overtook into a chicane without consent. Risk your own car all you like, but put a dent in someone else's and you'll have a very irate driver to deal with, not to mention the obvious financial implications.

No way did they consent - I guess many of the people there have little idea of where they are going and dont concentarte on extras.
I like the idea of lights on - why not hey!
Not a close mate but loaded and clearly doesnt care too much. I however am on a 14% pay cut and a smash would be the end!

I've heard quite alot of bad reports from these 'action days'......

What are they like really?? Are they really that rowdy??

This one was far better as you needed a classic car or sports car to get out. However - with the circuit struggling for money and a wet day that scared many off, there were a fair few nutters in any old vehicles.
Ive done a good few now and am starting to find it very frustrating getting a clear lap whilst trying to improve on times. I guess its a case of que up early and get out first.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

hmmm really not sure about this.... If there's little/no manners out there....

[goodeg]

I was told by CCI when I got track day insurance that it's every man for himself ie if someone dings your car - you have to claim on your insurance, and can't on theirs. Is that not the same for normal insurance that includes track days, if an accident were to happen on track?

Yeah thats correct, if you have an accident, your own fault or otherwise, then the responsibility for the repairs is your own. The TDO and Track indemnity forms both usually include this so any attempts to recover costs from a third party are unlikely to be successful. I'm pretty sure that there have been cases in the past where people have tried to sue people for damages on track days and failed due to this waiver.

[Sutol]

As a matter of interest does anyone know what %age of track day incidents are car/car related?

[MAXR]

I now attend a reasonable amount of Track days each year; I do so to improve my abilities, improve my lap times & to gain experience of handling my car. I do push myself beyond my comfort zone whilst hopefully remaining in full control and without endangering other users, it's the only way to improve! I do not go to track days to drive within my comfort zone as I may as well be driving on the M25. Those who attend track days should be fully aware that a high percentage of the 50+ drivers, who pay to drive at the track day, do so to extend their abilities in a reasonably safe environment. I always adhere to the track rules & always will let a faster car past at the earliest opportunity as I know how it feels to be held up for several corners by someone who has an ego problem. I also never push a slower car through corners and try and pass by consent when I think they have either acknowledged that it is safe to pass or have pulled over or eased off. We all know how frustrating it is driving behind a “Sunday driver” driving a 40mph in a 50 zone. Yes, they are driving safely, but it sometimes forces the person following into making a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre. Guess what? it’s No different on the track! Most track days I attend are run well, but some like the one I attended at Oulton Park recently were compromised by the organisers before the track day even started. Any organiser that allows 4 radicals, 3 atoms, an Ultima, 2 2-Elevens, 12 Caterhams including R300/400 & R500’s, 3 GT3 RS’s, Exige’s plus many more hardcore cars driven by hardened regular track day drivers as well as many complete novices driving standard Audi A6’s, BMW’s, Rovers etc with no track experience is asking for trouble. It is a guaranteed way of causing friction amongst the drivers. Track days are dangerous places, accidents do happen, those who attend should be fully aware of these facts. On average I must see at least 1 possibly two actual accidents & several dangerous spins at each track day!

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I now attend a reasonable amount of Track days each year; I do so to improve my abilities, improve my lap times & to gain experience of handling my car. I do push myself beyond my comfort zone whilst hopefully remaining in full control and without endangering other users, it's the only way to improve! I do not go to track days to drive within my comfort zone as I may as well be driving on the M25. Those who attend track days should be fully aware that a high percentage of the 50+ drivers, who pay to drive at the track day, do so to extend their abilities in a reasonably safe environment.

I always adhere to the track rules & always will let a faster car past at the earliest opportunity as I know how it feels to be held up for several corners by someone who has an ego problem. I also never push a slower car through corners and try and pass by consent when I think they have either acknowledged that it is safe to pass or have pulled over or eased off. We all know how frustrating it is driving behind a “Sunday driver” driving a 40mph in a 50 zone. Yes, they are driving safely, but it sometimes forces the person following into making a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre. Guess what? it’s No different on the track!

Most track days I attend are run well, but some like the one I attended at Oulton Park recently were compromised by the organisers before the track day even started. Any organiser that allows 4 radicals, 3 atoms, an Ultima, 2 2-Elevens, 12 Caterhams including R300/400 & R500’s, 3 GT3 RS’s, Exige’s plus many more hardcore cars driven by hardened regular track day drivers as well as many complete novices driving standard Audi A6’s, BMW’s, Rovers etc with no track experience is asking for trouble. It is a guaranteed way of causing friction amongst the drivers.

Track days are dangerous places, accidents do happen, those who attend should be fully aware of these facts. On average I must see at least 1 possibly two actual accidents & several dangerous spins at each track day!

Most of my days have been Euro LoT days which are generally well run. I really hope I'm not in for a rude awakening now that I'm looking at more UK days outside of LoT.

Who organised the oulten day Max... Perhaps I should give them a miss. This probably deserves a thread of its own, but are there any TDO's to avoid..?

I'm thinking these 'action days' sound a bit stupid too!!

Edited by JimmyJamJerusalem, 07 June 2009 - 07:20 PM.

[techieboy]

Had good and bad experiences with MSV days and also a very mixed ability day on a BaT day. LoT days have been consistently good. Goldtrack days are meant to be very well put together as well. You couldn't pay me enough to go near another "Action Day" at Combe, though. Last one I did (and it was sometime ago) was full of too many idiots and too many types of cars of varied performance (a lot of which were only worth a couple of hundred quid and didn't look like the owners were expecting to take them home at the end of the day).

[goodeg]

Track days are dangerous places, accidents do happen, those who attend should be fully aware of these facts. On average I must see at least 1 possibly two actual accidents & several dangerous spins at each track day!

I don't think I have been to a none LOT day that there hasn't been at least one car hitting the armco but I don't think I have seen any car/car contact. All the none LOT days I have done have been MSV days at Oulton or Cadwell and have all been well run with most of the drivers waiting for/giving consent before over taking and the stewards quickly having words with drivers doing anything inappropriate.

But I have also seen accidents on LOT days.....

[Retset]

I think the LoT days are the best I have done for driver manners. I am moving to the South West soon and an action day at Castle Coomb would have been a big draw. Thanks for the advice as I shall now wait for LoT days there .. or another reputable track day organiser.

[MAXR]

Who organised the oulten day Max... Perhaps I should give them a miss. This probably deserves a thread of its own, but are there any TDO's to avoid..?

I'm thinking these 'action days' sound a bit stupid too!!

Jimmy,

It was run by BHP Trackdays. I have attended previous dates with them & they have been run well, but on this occasion it was frustrating as the first time trackers really don't check their mirrors often enough or they just think that they can keep ahead. Even regular trackers can get pis*ed off when someone is trying to pass them, they should know better! I had both Atoms purposely holding me up at Oulton; obviously they were being driven well below average, neither driver wanting to move over. Also several Caterhams trying so hard to stay ahead, pushing themselves way beyond their limit that they lose it and spin dangerously in front...

I guess when you have 40+ males driving their "Pride & Joy" on track; you will find a handful that are very competitive. I sometimes let a fast car passed just so that I could follow it, to watch their line & braking points. Now I try to just pick dates where I know there will be competitive cars booked on the day.


But, you will learn far more when you are trying to keep up with a competitive car than just staying on your own within your comfort zone. Just don't push to hard too soon...


Max

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

You couldn't pay me enough to go near another "Action Day" at Combe, though. Last one I did (and it was sometime ago) was full of too many idiots and too many types of cars of varied performance (a lot of which were only worth a couple of hundred quid and didn't look like the owners were expecting to take them home at the end of the day).

Then I'm decided on that then ....

Jimmy,

It was run by BHP Trackdays. I have attended previous dates with them & they have been run well, but on this occasion it was frustrating as the first time trackers really don't check their mirrors often enough or they just think that they can keep ahead. Even regular trackers can get pis*ed off when someone is trying to pass them, they should know better! I had both Atoms purposely holding me up at Oulton; obviously they were being driven well below average, neither driver wanting to move over. Also several Caterhams trying so hard to stay ahead, pushing themselves way beyond their limit that they lose it and spin dangerously in front...

I guess when you have 40+ males driving their "Pride & Joy" on track; you will find a handful that are very competitive. I sometimes let a fast car passed just so that I could follow it, to watch their line & braking points. Now I try to just pick dates where I know there will be competitive cars booked on the day.


But, you will learn far more when you are trying to keep up with a competitive car than just staying on your own within your comfort zone. Just don't push to hard too soon...


Max

Yeah, the pride and joy factor is defo a big one at track days! Not a prob if the other car is of similar ability, but soooo annoying when the other driver is SLOW!

I was stuck behind a brand new 911 GT3 at LFG who was soo slow. Took ages for him to let me by. I shot off expecting him to let other cars by, only for me to double back from a hairpin, and see that he had every other car on the track queued up behined him.... I ended up going in as I was bored with an entirely empty track ahead of me, and he got black flagged

Also at Llandow a little while back I was all over a well driven Evo (400bhp). I was right on his tail for lap after lap (his exhaust was spitting flames), but I didn't want him to move over, as I was far quicker chasing than leading, and I was learning tons! Once he finally did move over, I overcooked it a lap later going into the bus-stop and spun

What I have seen far too much of (and not from you Timbo), is M3/5 drivers who will not get out of your way, and think they are justified to hold you up lap after lap because they can overpower you in a straight line for about 3 secs... They annoy me!

Edited by JimmyJamJerusalem, 09 June 2009 - 05:48 AM.

[techieboy]

Don't let my comments put you off a properly organised trackday at Combe, Jimmy. It's a great circuit, it's just the planks that turn up for the Action Days that are the issue. The fact that some people only buy one session so drive like a total knobhead for it and then disappear doesn't help as there's no real risk of them getting kicked off for the rest of the day.

[danger7]

Us car drivers are quite comical, when I attend bike track days there is non of this he held me up and he was too slow and this guy did this and so on. If we start taking track days too seriously then my advice is simple - go and race. I agree with MAXR's points you can extend your comfort zone within yourself learn the limits of your car without tractors pulling out from field gates, or worrying about oncoming traffic when taking a racing line, but racing or harrying other drivers on track days can lead to tears and I know from experience, yep big off because I outbraked myself as the red mist clouded my better judgement (YorB that was another accident). Ok over cheers all and please all drive safely. Cheers Ian

[VIX]

If we start taking track days too seriously then my advice is simple - go and race.

I fell very strongly that trackdays are meant to be just that. When they get too serious (and dangerous) I'll be packing it in.