17 replies to this topic

[TheRealVXed]

Right so thinking about going down the throttle body route. Had a look on here and saw lots of people raving about ITBs. What does the "I" bit stand for? Also. Other than just swapping the bodies what other mods are needed for it?

[rcvaughan]

Individual Throttle Bodies, one throttle body per cylinder Also need an oil catch tank (£25 off of ebay) a little breather filter to go with it (£5 from me), an immobiliser and, if you want to completely get rid of the standard ecu which is basically dead weight, a temperature gauge and sensor (£20 ish from me) They sound

Edited by rcvaughan, 20 October 2009 - 05:04 PM.

[TheRealVXed]

Thanks. So where do I get the ITBs from? Cheers

[rcvaughan]

Thanks.

So where do I get the ITBs from?

Cheers

Webcon or TMS that's for the full kit describes below but doesn't come with the additional parts that you will need which I have described above

(you just missed out on a second hand set from Lee )


http://www.thorneymo...roducts_id=2717

Edited by rcvaughan, 20 October 2009 - 05:21 PM.

[rabidh]

It stands for 'individual' - you have one per cylinder. In terms of mods, to go the way everyone generally does it on the 2.2 you'll need: * New ECU * General re-wiring for the new ECU * Cable throttle put in (instead of your current electric one) * Separate Fuel pressure regulator + bunging original injector holes * Removal of old air filter and setting up the new one for your ITBs Generally all that comes in a kit for £1800ish - after having done mine myself I seriously think it's worth the money to just buy it There's basically no point doing it unless you have a good exhaust system, high performance cams, and even possibly a gas flowed head though... Vocky's the guy to talk to about this, but generally you'd go for stronger valve springs and balance shaft removal so you can make the most of the high RPM performance...

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

high performance cams, and even possibly a gas flowed head though... Vocky's the guy to talk to about this, but generally you'd go for stronger valve springs and balance shaft removal so you can make the most of the high RPM performance...

............. almost there on mine

[VXT Tim]

What are the intake temps like. I imagine not too bad what with the grills in the bonnet cover? Never like the idea of open tb's, anybody running them in a sealed box with a cold air pipe to the side as normal?

[slindborg]

What are the intake temps like. I imagine not too bad what with the grills in the bonnet cover?
Never like the idea of open tb's, anybody running them in a sealed box with a cold air pipe to the side as normal?

Even in closed engine bays I've never seen high inlet temps on open TB's.




aside from Vocky and possibly Alanoooooooooo, the ITB results on the Z22 have been disappointing at best. OK they sound divine but since the engine has a long ass stroke its never going to be as potent as a 20XE on TB's

[techieboy]

anybody running them in a sealed box with a cold air pipe to the side as normal?

Vocky is.

[VXT Tim]

aside from Vocky and possibly Alanoooooooooo, the ITB results on the Z22 have been disappointing at best.

So i have read, i assume playing with trumpet length hasn't altered the result much?

[vocky]

throttle bodies got a negative press, which was nothing to do with the equipment rather the usual 'tms' bashing all the people who actually bought the throttle bodies kit / converted cars have loved them they do transform the drive of the vx220, power is increased and they can easily be mapped for any engine mods. but to get the most from them you need to raise the rev limiter, which means changing the rods and removing the balancer shafts. 7800rpm is supposed to be the ideal rev limit for the z22se engine.

[vocky]

aside from Vocky and possibly Alanoooooooooo, the ITB results on the Z22 have been disappointing at best.

So i have read, i assume playing with trumpet length hasn't altered the result much?

I extended mine by 45mm, changed the cams, upped the CR to 11:1 and raised the rev limit, that resulted in a 50 hp gain

[rabidh]

Aside from Vocky and possibly Alanoooooooooo, the ITB results on the Z22 have been disappointing at best. OK they sound divine but since the engine has a long ass stroke its never going to be as potent as a 20XE on TB's

I think if you're just after lots of power then forced induction is a far more efficient way to get power with these engines.

But the noise of ITBs... Oh my god

I still have to tune my cam + spark timings properly, but even so the car is at least as fast as before - but the induction roar gives you the most amazing feeling when going for it, which IMO would be worth it even if there was no performance improvement.

[alanoo]

aside from Vocky and possibly Alanoooooooooo, the ITB results on the Z22 have been disappointing at best. OK they sound divine but since the engine has a long ass stroke its never going to be as potent as a 20XE on TB's

I do not have ITBs yet, because I don't like Webcon solution (even if very good, I always aim for pefect solutions...)

Btw, to be honnest, the 2.4 manifold is not flowing enough for my engine, I'm seeing some vaccum at max torque/hi RPM, these are quite a lot of HP lost...


markv said in a post that they are seeing same kind of issues (just not as bad) on other engines... so that's still a lot of HP to gain on the inlet side for almost everybody !

ITBs are the easiest solution to kill any restrictions on the inlet side, even if a perfectly engineered plenum might be best (except it will need hundreds of hours of engineering).

Oh, maybe I should quote a mail I got some days ago too

From: John Goddard
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:53 PM
To: alan@hardware.fr
Subject: RE: ATPower DTH throttle bodies for a GM/Vauxhall late Ecotec engine ?


Hi Alan,



Thanks very much for the enquiry. The information you sent me is very useful and is exactly what we need to begin to design a system. We currently have a lot of systems on design but we don't have the space to manufacture them at the moment. If we get around to making this system I will email you the information.



I’m sorry I can’t be more help at the moment.



Regards,



John.

ATPower shaftless direct to head ITBs might be coming one day...

Edited by alanoo, 21 October 2009 - 09:16 AM.

[jonnyboy]

My car as far as I'm aware just has the ITBs plus sport cat/exhaust. Its sustantially quicker than a standard car and really in all honesty is more than quick enough. If you want to go figure chasing just buy a tubby and stage 4 it. The noise is okay its as nice as you could expect a 4 cylider engine to sound I guess (wouldnt bang on too much about that though TBH lol again if you want sound go buy an M car) TBs do reveal one thing about the z22se that I didnt know before, it does actually have some character! Also the TB's get rid of that annoying flat spot I think they do compliment the car. I'm a stickler for not wanting to ruin the balance of the NA as it is just about perfect out of the box. The additional power does satisfy those rare occasions on the road when you feel more power would be nice. But TBH I genuinely think that any more power and you're starting to ruin the overall balance. For me its all about exploitability and with the NA you can use 99% of the performance 99% of the time. If you start chasing power you start actually being able to exploit less of the cars performance especially on the road. Basically I'd say at £1800 if you do the conversion yourself they are worthwhile but if you're getting the work done and also need an exhaust etc you'd be looking at £4000 ish I guess. At that sort of money bearing in mind what a superb standard car the VX is you have to wonder weather that kind of money would be better spent on something else.

[Winstar]

The problem with fitting ITB's to the Z22SE engine is that the inlet ports are designed to provide alot of turbulence at low revs so there is good incylinder mixing and torque at low revs, however this means that they become a restriction at high revs which is where the ITB make the real difference So you really need head work to make the conversion worthwhile. A lot of people say it improves the driveability of the car but I wonder if that's more to do with the cable throttle and new ECU.

[slindborg]

The problem with fitting ITB's to the Z22SE engine is that the inlet ports are designed to provide alot of turbulence at low revs so there is good incylinder mixing and torque at low revs, however this means that they become a restriction at high revs which is where the ITB make the real difference So you really need head work to make the conversion worthwhile.

A lot of people say it improves the driveability of the car but I wonder if that's more to do with the cable throttle and new ECU.

aside from the fact once the std ecu has learnt some gash values for transition from idle drive to moving with vigor, the driveability is one of the best I've experienced from an OEM ETB setup...
plus I dont think this 'flat spot' that people about really is really that much of a problem.

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

'Winstar' post='947769' date='Oct 21 2009, 12:03 ']The problem with fitting ITB's to the Z22SE engine is that the inlet ports are designed to provide alot of

got itb's since over6 month and i find it very nice but it is a big tease
arrive on a round about last night and taking a junction of a motorway i had to floor it and enjoy......... when the power come you just don't stop and need to be good i need my licence the sound is just pure alcool in your brain just need more ponnies that's all
i do agree on doing mods to compliments them....just did the all exhaust and manifold and new cams and my head is on his way to be ported polished and machine with fews other mods and a good remap will reveal me what i have finally gain lol
on fact it is bloody expensive lol

Edited by crazyfrog, 21 October 2009 - 08:05 PM.