36 replies to this topic

[Shaun]

Following the Chase 04 I was phoned by my 'friend' in the local police to say that they where generally pleased with the responsible driving of the VX owners on the day. He did then ask if the club supported any of the Roadcraft based courses available to civilians. I promised to post a survey.

[Huntsman]

Palmersport doesn't count! I've had number of driver training courses with a number of providers (not because it was needed, I hasten to add - it's part of my job!) and the quality can vary considerably. The worst ones are the regular driving instructors who try to teach you to drive all over again, whereas the good ones accept your driving style and just help you get the best out of your car in a safe way. Some of the ex-coppers/pursuit drivers are great fun and can really teach you about engine speeds, road placement etc. I always use my own example here - I passed my driving test 18 years ago in a Nissan Micra in the West of Ireland. Now I drive a VX220 up and down the M40, and up to a couple of years ago had no further training. Doesn't sound good, does it? All in all, I'd recommend that anybody who has the opportunity gives it a go. You might surprise yourself (as well as get cheaper premiums if you get a qualification )

[Shaun]

I agree Skid pans and racetracks are good fun and useful but good 'Roadcraft' will keep you alive in every day driving. IAM and ROSPA are good value as they are charities and most will have ex class 1 police drivers as instructors / examiners.

[L7OBO]

I have done the IAM Training and got a high pass mark, which i did when i was eighteen. Last Year i did ROSPA, which is alot more advanced than the IAM, the test was alot harder and i came out with a silver award. Mind you i didnt have any training before. I would recommend you do it because it does make you alot more aware of all going on, and you dont realise how much you have to look out for! I also did the young driver of the year @ silverstone and came nowhere, mind you there wasnt any speed involved! Do the training first!

[Ratspants]

Curiously, I've just been debating this. Here's a few links to add to the discussion:

Steering into controversy
RideDrive
Steering techniques
Balls to that, do rally!

AND, very coincidentally, just met someone in the pub who got the silver award on the advanced drivers thingy and really was appalling. I don't think i put too much weight in official credentials but companies like ride-drive and 1st-lotus seem to be the right way forward.

Ben

[Jim_Cross]

I've heard excellent things about HPC, and the Evo articles on it certainly sounded excellent. If only I could afford it!

[Huntsman]

Just to add to the debate, what if you drive for work? Do yu think your employer has a duty to provide you with training to use your car more effectively, or do you think it's a load of rubbish?

[Shaun]

I have to admit I'm a bit biased towards HPC as I have completed the course a few years ago. I have also done the IAM and ROSPA Gold and would thoroughly recommend them as being of a high standard and cheap.

[Jim Mitch]

I've just passed the IAM test (last Saturday). Yay for me... I did the whole thing in the VX as well as I wanted to learn to drive the thing with the benefit of having an instructor (or rather an "observer") in the car with me. The examiners are all ex- or current police Class 1 drivers (or as in my case, an ex-police instructor as well). Very good VFM - £85 for the whole thing + £20 to join the local IAM group. Having spoken to others who are doing the same course, it sounds like the different groups around the country are a bit mixed. Can thoroughly recommend the Banbury group though. It's made me more observant and much smoother with the car. I find that I'm driving just as quickly but with a lot more control. I've also learnt a bit of restraint when it's wet and slippy (and when there are w*nkers in hatchbacks right up my tailpipes) - which is a good thing. Would still like to do a "performance" course as well though...

[Ducati996Senna]

Yes I'm familiar with roadcraft. Its no bid deal really. Police officers are no better drivers than you or I. The major difference between them and others is their training in advanced observations. The Police system of driving relies heavily on this together with anticipation, and awareness of potential hazards. Each hazard is dealt with in a set routine regarding braking, gears, mirrors and manoeuvre. It is without doubt a system that was devised to ensure that you will always drive within the limitations of your visibility and the dangers within them. Speed has very little to do with it.

[Shaun]

Yes I'm familiar with roadcraft. Its no bid deal really. Police officers are no better drivers than you or I. The major difference between them and others is their training in advanced observations. The Police system of driving relies heavily on this together with anticipation, and awareness of potential hazards. Each hazard is dealt with in a set routine regarding braking, gears, mirrors and manoeuvre. It is without doubt a system that was devised to ensure that you will always drive within the limitations of your visibility and the dangers within them. Speed has very little to do with it.

Bit of a simplistic view of Roadcraft.

Road craft is the basic system which can then be adapted for advanced driving such as class 1 police drivers / HPC etc.

I have to say that I always try and drive with the basic princible of being able to stop within the road I can see....if this means sometimes dickhead in Corsa overtakes then so be it....

[two4oneuk]

Did the drive and survive 1/2 day 5 years ago and found it very crap. Also did a few days advanced training on a bike 3 years ago and reckon it was the best . It made me a better driver due to increased awareness. Due to do another driving 1/2 course this year with work. They prefer that we double up with one driving in the morning then the other driving in the afternoon then get critised at the end with the instuctor showing you a few things in your own car. The chances of getting a second passenger in to the vx is slim to none and letting some punter drive my car is less likely. martin

[pter141]

did the performance drivers course based at knockhill which involved approx 5 hrs on the road and a spell on the track and skid pan etc,5 hrs on the road was in my VXT it was a one to one course and it really opened my eyes.

[crr003]

Why can you only vote for one? What if you've passed more than one? Hang on - just seen the results. Out of 2000 members, 10 have done a recognised "advanced" driving course?

Edited by crr003, 05 April 2005 - 06:25 PM.

[oblomov]

I've done two courses (a long time ago) one run by the police and the IAM course. I didn't take the IAM test because I didn't agree with the rigid ten to two position (when turning the steering wheel). My technique allows for the hand to cross to just above the other in ten to two position which makes things a lot easier. My other objection was to not being allowed to brake and change gear simultaneously. This is not a realistic driving technique as far as I'm concerned and the police admit that during a 'pursuit' they don't follow it. Also there were other little niggles. Basically I did the course and took away from it what I wanted. Also I've got a book on 'Very advanced' driving techniques and that's quite good with things in it you won't find in Roadcraft like waiting on the motorway until a 'sucker' drives past at high speed and then peeling out and following about half a mile back allowing your 'sucker' to 'trigger' any Plod waiting for fast drivers. I also have a few techniques I have developed myself for certain 'situations' That said, the techniques taught in the Roadcraft book are very good. They slow you down in the right places, and make you aware of hazards that the average drivers ignore. I'm about to do the IAM again as a refresher but doubt I will take the test unless I can be sure it will lower my insurance. I think anyone who drives a high performance car should do either the IAM or the ROSPA. Every driver on the road is convinced they are a marvelous driver but the fact is that not very many are The one thing that the VXT has taught me that no course ever did is 'restraint' Never had it before, but got it now

[Whiteboy]

I've heard excellent things about HPC, and the Evo articles on it certainly sounded excellent. If only I could afford it!

Join the ambulance service and you get a 3 week driving course for free. They will even pay you to do it, now that is a good deal.

[ad172]

I've done Stage I and II of the HPC course. Have to say that this is probably one of the best 'roadcraft' based driver training courses - Yes Shaun I'm Biased as well!!!! John Lyon the trainer is awesome behind the wheel. He drove my car, a Clio172 at the time better than I ever did. He's about 62 now and still does all the training. Has an excellent racing history behind him, won 7 Caterham chapionships, Numerous Porsche races, BSM driving instructor, Police Driving instructor etc etc.. For anyone who has not done it I would recommend it 100%. It makes you a much more aware driver and ensure that you have the ability to make very good progess with maximum safety. adam

[Jaakko]

I did my pass plus and then two years ago did my Rospa and passed with Gold. I've also done the young driver of the year comp at Silverstone (Not that I won ). The one key thing that these courses teach you is observation and awareness; for others & the general road environment and how you should be reacting to these messages. I like most here go for a 'blat' along the roads, this involves driving at a pace but always so that if I need to hit the panic button I will have sufficient time to do so. Things like the two second gap et al become subconcious. For any high performance car you need to know how to control it when it is at it's limits, this isn't something you practise on the way home from work. For £99 you can go on the basic lotus 'Scare yourself Sensible' course, a worthwhile investment in my opinion. Or if you really want to take your skills to the next level do a HPC (I'm doing the Lotus Driver Training course, their website has all the info). To get it out of my system the track is the only place to be. For those that think they don't need it then

[CupidKnewRap]

I did the military defensive driving course, I get paid 24hrs 360 and it was another eight days at work so effectivly got paid for it (and the hours I sleep everyday.). supposedly equivilent to police drivers course and taught by police drivers. Followed up with the advanced drivers course. To be honest a few months in the VX has taught me more than the MOD course but probably because I can now anticipate better. Feel a lotus course is the next place to go

Edited by CupidKnewRap, 06 April 2005 - 02:40 PM.

[Thorney]

IAM ROSPA Gold IMO 99.99% of what both teach is common sense with a few little bits added in