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Wideband Lambda Sensor Installed Today


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#1 Nev

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:03 PM

I have been meaning to install a wideband lambda sensor kit for some time now. For those of you who don't know that this does, it measures the air fuel ratio (AFR) and displays it continuously on a guage. The importance of this on a standard car is not high really, though if you have a more highly tuned car it offers quite a few uses:

1: It will reveal if a remap is bad and underfueling.
2: It will reveal if your fuel pump is dieing slowly (they tire with age and are working close to max on a 300 BHP engine).
3: It will reveal if you have a fuel pipe leak(!), as the readings will go lean.
4: The readouts can/are used during mapping, very usefull if you have a 3rd party ECU and self map.
5: If you make some mild tuning mods to your car (eg 3 inch tophat change) you can check that your fuel tabs in the ECU have adjusted to compensate.

Of course we all know that driving with a lean mixture is tantamount to ruining your engine. If just a bit lean, exhaust gas temps have a tendancy to rise and power can be reduced. However, if running badly lean then you run the risk of detonation, a catastrophic event that will bugger your pistons very quickly causing many £1000s of damage and most probably write your car off.

With this in mind a few days ago I managed to haggle a local shop down to £148 for a well respected kit from Innovate. Yesterday I got the sensor bung welded in by my friendly local exhaust fabricators (for a £10er which was a bargain as it took 1 hour to do) and today I spent about 6 hours installing it. It is a bit of a fiddly job and requires carefully locating and cutting into a existing (igniton) switched live. I tried to get my switched live and earth from the stero and wasted about 2 hours messing about unsuccesfully with this. In the end I got the live from the rear left of the boot (PICS HERE) and the earth (as recommended) from the engine itself.

Of course you need to be jolly carefull not to mess the wiring up or you will be blowing fuses and possibly causing horrible electrical gremlins in your car. I checked and re-checked my wiring before powering up and starting the calibration. Thankfully it worked exactly as the instructions said and I went out for a gentle blast on my local test-track. Figures on the guage were measuring from 10:1 with my foot down to 14.4:1 when idleing - perfect (thanks to Stephan and more specifically Courtenays).

I felt the kit was very good, the wiring was neat, the instructions clear and every part was included. If you should feel the need to buy a kit I would recommend the Innovate one.

Pip pip VX chums !

Nev.

Edited by Nev, 19 November 2009 - 10:30 PM.


#2 Duncan VXR

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 09:15 AM

Good stuff Nev ;) seen that kit before and heard good things :) glad you managed to trace the switched live with my dodgy instructions on the phone LOL DG

#3 slindborg

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 03:16 PM

The innovative kit is great, but be warned that the controller dosent 100% conform to the bosch sensor control requirements so you might be unlucky and kill the odd sensor here and there, but iirc Chip hasnt had many problems with his.

#4 NickB787

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:07 PM

Why do wide band not fit OEM holes for lambda's or maybe they do? can I replace the OEM with one?

#5 cheeky_chops

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:15 PM

10:1 - sounds rich? and so does 14.4 at idle?? :blink: Dont forget too rich means power loss and can lead to bore wash/thinner oil

#6 vocky

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:18 PM

Why do wide band not fit OEM holes for lambda's or maybe they do? can I replace the OEM with one?

they do have the same thread as the oem sensors, but I don't think you can just use a wideband sensor instead of a oem type sensor - unless you are changing the ecu

I have the innovate on mine, it can be a pain in the backside at times - it doesn't like the ignition being switched on and off too quick and will loose it's calibration so the lambda has to be removed from the exhaust to recalibrate :rolleyes:

otherwise it's spot on with the mixture values thumbsup

Edited by vocky, 20 November 2009 - 05:19 PM.


#7 slindborg

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:34 PM

Why do wide band not fit OEM holes for lambda's or maybe they do? can I replace the OEM with one?

they do have the same thread as the oem sensors, but I don't think you can just use a wideband sensor instead of a oem type sensor - unless you are changing the ecu

I have the innovate on mine, it can be a pain in the backside at times - it doesn't like the ignition being switched on and off too quick and will loose it's calibration so the lambda has to be removed from the exhaust to recalibrate :rolleyes:

otherwise it's spot on with the mixture values thumbsup



you can get a simulated narrow band output from most wideband setups so you can replace the OEM one.


14.4 is close enough at idle imho, given the bang bang controller in there for it etc.

#8 Nev

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 05:43 PM

Surely 14.5:1 is virtually perfect stoich for idling ? As for 10.0:1 - yes I know thats rich but that only happens at high revs for a split second with WOT and then it leans up a bit. I have noticed when the load is very high (ie sudden depression of the accelerator) is when it runs rich. Usual rapid acceleration shows a ratio of approx 12:1 to 13:1 ratio. Mild (ie 'normal' for most cars) acceleration keeps the ratio at approx 14:1. I am not familiar with quite how rich it should run under max load really, I spose I had better go and snoop on the web to see what other high tune engines get... Of course this is all fairly artifical, as if I hadn't fitted the thing I would be blissfully unaware (like 99.9% of people :closedeyes: ) I didnt measure the exact thread of the bung, but I did notice that none of my metric spanners fitted the sensor, so I had to use a monkey wrench to tighten it up. I expect this is cos the Ausies use imperial tools mostly :rolleyes:

Edited by Nev, 20 November 2009 - 05:56 PM.


#9 TheHood

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Posted 20 November 2009 - 08:56 PM

Why do wide band not fit OEM holes for lambda's or maybe they do? can I replace the OEM with one?

they do have the same thread as the oem sensors, but I don't think you can just use a wideband sensor instead of a oem type sensor - unless you are changing the ecu

I have the innovate on mine, it can be a pain in the backside at times - it doesn't like the ignition being switched on and off too quick and will loose it's calibration so the lambda has to be removed from the exhaust to recalibrate :rolleyes:

otherwise it's spot on with the mixture values thumbsup


When I was looking into wide band lambdas the thing that put me off the innovate gear was the fact they needed calibrating in open air, so I did some digging around and came across THIS COMPANY. If their claims are true their stuff doesn't need calibrating at all, so would be a better bet for Nick if he was going to be relying on it to simulate a narrow band output. thumbsup

#10 NickB787

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 12:14 PM

From the DTA forum DTA forum
sounds like less hassle, I like plug and forget

here are a few more wideband

Wideband

Sorry another edit, I found this site Web link

PLX SM-AFR Wideband Module With Sensor
£165.00
£149.00 (including 15 % tax)
You Save: £16.00

Think I will order one,

Edited by NickB777, 10 December 2009 - 12:29 PM.


#11 The Batman

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 01:43 PM

my new exhaust will be coming with a space for one, hmmm DTA ;)

#12 NickB787

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 02:56 PM

my new exhaust will be coming with a space for one, hmmm DTA ;)


Don't forget Joe the way things are going the parts list and looms may well be available for the DTA from a member here :D

Edited by NickB777, 10 December 2009 - 02:56 PM.


#13 The Batman

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:35 PM

have been in talks ;) :D

#14 Jameshs

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:55 PM

my new exhaust will be coming with a space for one, hmmm DTA ;)


Don't forget Joe the way things are going the parts list and looms may well be available for the DTA from a member here :D



Count me in too

#15 The Batman

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:58 PM

build your bottom end first :P :lol:

#16 siztenboots

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 04:09 PM

narrow band is all you need, imho if you are that far from stoic and you are trying to map it yourself then having 0 - 5v readout is the least of your worries , how are you going to datalog the high speed voltage transitions against rpm, ignition, fuel trims etc.

#17 Steve B

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:55 AM

I've an LC-1 on my track car, i've never had a single problem, however others on the MX5 forums regularly have problems. Over the years the things that consittantly cause problems are a) sensor being to close to the manifold, it needs to be quite far back as too much heat damages the sensors and B) not using a very good stable live & earth. Its essential its got a good strong power supply. The LC-1 is a good bit of kit I run one output as simulared narrow band for closed loop lambda and the other wide band for a gauge and data logging for when I tweek my map after any changes I make to the car. I'm probably going to ditch the gauge when I rebuild my interior as I can set limits in my ECU to put it into safe mod if certain conditions are met i.e. high boost and a lean AFR so I never really look at the gauge anyway. 10:1, on boost they do run pig rich then 11.5:1 should be optimum for boost with safety.

Edited by Steve B, 13 December 2009 - 01:59 AM.


#18 evileye_xc

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:08 AM

I had an AEM Air/ Fuel Ratio gauge on my last car after it was turboed and I never had any problems with it. Didn't do data logging like the Innovate unit tho. I was always lead to believe that AFR was essential if you were changing maps from stock numbers. Of course I was running a bolt on turbo with a piggy back chip rather than remapping the ECU itself

#19 Nikov

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:16 PM

Thread resurection :)

 

I'm looking at the Innovate LC-1 kit for my Beetle at the moment. If you chaps could give me some objective feedback on them before I blow more money I'd much appreciate it.

 

Cheers

Niko



#20 Bumblebee

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:20 PM

I used to have that one, good bit of kit IMO I had it in my car for -bout 2 years before changing it (only changed as I got some different ones bought for Xmas) I've now got an aem with built in failsafe

Edited by Bumblebee, 09 December 2013 - 06:24 PM.





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