4722 replies to this topic

[The Batman]

is it time for 6 speed nev? p.s. Jon, has a complete 6 speed setup in his loft

[NickB787]

is it time for 6 speed nev?

p.s. Jon, has a complete 6 speed setup in his loft

no he hasn't it's sold

[Nev]

I've just rung Terry up at Helix to discuss this sorry matter. According to him, he says he can't make a stronger clutch plate for the F23 gearbox due to the limitations of the flywheel/housing size. The only way to get more friction is to have 2 plates (ie a dual mass flywheel). The only way to get a dual mass flywheel in is to fit an M32 gearbox in. Apparently his clutch system for the M32 can cope with 449 ft/lbs of torque. It costs £ 1262 including the flywheel !! Bearing mind the cost of a reputable M32 with good history will be a bit (say £250) , and then the labour for CS to stick it in, I am looking at a total bill of that I just can't afford at the moment I am close to crying. Really. Chris Randall is gonna ring me back to discuss this matter, as I need confirmation on all this before I go and jump in front of a passing bus.

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 04:36 PM.

[The Batman]

bad news is one o duncans 733 paddle clutches any better than the one you have fitted now?

[Seb.F]

Can you not just hold off for a short while as you wait to build parts together? And cope with slightly less torque for now? That's a lot to fork out for at this time... especially after all the work that's gone into it already.

[Nev]

I've just got off the phone to Chris Randall who has kindly rung me back to discuss things . He runs an M32 gearbox, attached to his Z20LER and somehow gets away with a single plate clutch at approx 380 to 400 ft/lbs of torque. I think he's just very lucky somehow and must be close to the limit of slipping as he drives with slicks in race conditions. Randy also offered some other very usefull advice, in that he said that he noticed that his oil pressure started dropping off at around 7800 revs. This is due to oil cavitation in the pump and thankfully lets me know where I should set the red line on the map. Thanks Randy. As my engine seems to want to make 450+ ft/lbs (at just 1.5 bar of boost), it seems stupid to just ask Courtenays to cut the boost so far back (to approx 350 ft/lb) simply because the clutch is slipping. It defeats the object of making the engine powerful in the first place! Also, remember that my car is princilply a road car, so high(ish) torque is important for when I come up against a Bugatti Veyron and I dont want to lose it just becuase of a stupid weak clutch So, I have just rung Stephan up in Germany. He says he can sell me an uprated pressure plate, it is a Sachs one that he sends off to some company to be beefed up and it should be able to cope with enough torque to make 500 to 525 BHP on the F23 gearbox. Only 360 euros too !!! However, I will still have to pay Courtenays for taking my gearbox off and fitting it as the car is in Norfolk rather than in my garage where I can work on it

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 05:25 PM.

[chris]

What are you expecting with a dual mass flywheel, excepted problem ? I am running a M32 gearbox with single plate and Sachs clutch. It works with the 370 ft/lb of my engine without any slipage ! But you increase the realibility of your car with a M32 gearbox even if six speed are not really necessary with such torque level. The F23 gearbox is quite robust but with your level of torque, associated with a high rpm of the engine, I am afraid that its lifetime will be reduced.

[P11 COV]

Is the gearbox itself going to be able to cope with that kind of torque? Thought the F23 was only "officially" rated to 230ft/lb. Clearly we've been pushing past that for some time but this is a huge leap into the unknown.

And there has been quite a lot of mentions of geaarbox issues in modified cars on here - mine included.

[techieboy]

And there has been quite a lot of mentions of geaarbox issues in modified cars on here - mine included.

Indeed. I half had you and Zebwatch in mind when I posted that. I still don't understand how a slippy diff works so not sure whether that will have any positive or negative effect on how Nev's gearbox will mechanically cope with that level power.

[Nev]

Sweet Jesus, please cast a spell to make my gearbox and clutch work ! P11COv, pls can u let me know what happend to yours, and under what torque.

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 06:30 PM.

[P11 COV]

However, I will still have to pay Courtenays for taking my gearbox off and fitting it as the car is in Norfolk rather than in my garage where I can work on it

Would it be worth retrieving the car from Norfolk to fit the clutch? Courtenays will charge £500+

[The Batman]

screw supercharging, ditch that game and start swapping box's (note this is a joke i hate gearboxes and everything associated with them) speak to vocky instead

[P11 COV]

And there has been quite a lot of mentions of geaarbox issues in modified cars on here - mine included.

Indeed. I half had you and Zebwatch in mind when I posted that. I still don't understand how a slippy diff works so not sure whether that will have any positive or negative effect on how Nev's gearbox will mechanically cope with that level power.

Plus Minno is currently in the middle of a gearbox rebuild. I am sure there are others.

[Nev]

Dudes, I've taken my box of 3 times, I know what a pain it is, govelling on my (broken) back dangling a 60 KG weight 2 inches above my face and trying to put M10 bolts into the bolts holes while lining the spines up !

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 06:33 PM.

[techieboy]

Day off work and trip to Courtenay's to DIY it?

[Nev]

Just sent a grovely email to Jon abou what I'd suggest doing next... The poor guy is up to his eyeballs in work as big Mark is off on paterntiy leave. Im upto my eyballs in debt wondering if the sweeet Jesus is gonna save me and my clutch woes!

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 06:35 PM.

[VXR 43]

Nev I feel your pain. I stuck a brand new engine in mine, plus hybrid turbo and a few other bits. Then took it for mapping and the box let go on the dyno. (320lbft) That was another 1k before I got it mapped again. Hope you get it resolved ASAP and cheaply!

[P11 COV]

Sweet Jesus, please cast a spell to make my gearbox and clutch work !

P11COv, pls can u let me know what happend to yours, and under what torque.

Mine is running 305 Ibft. The sachs paddle clutch fitted by Thorney a few years ago had wear, as did the flywheel. The slave cylinder went which is what put it into courtenays in the begining. I had been experiencing gearbox issues for 6 months before that however. 1st syncro had gone. It was jumping out of third and also stuggling to do into 2nd.

I an not very knowledgable on gearboxes and have mislaid the paperwork. When courtenays gearbox guys took it apart they said the 1st and 2nd gear shaft was buggered. Cant remeber anything more technical than that! It had a full recon for £500. any parts that looked suspect were replaced.

BTW I have done a lot of track work with it on sticky tyres and drive it 'enthusiastically' on the road trying to make the most of its 290 horses.

Edited by P11 COV, 21 June 2011 - 06:41 PM.

[Nev]

Day off work and trip to Courtenay's to DIY it?

Yep, I might have to. Catch a fcking train up there for 6 hours, drive it back (partially mapped at least!) (5 hours) and swap the clutch cover at my place. Its my most dreaded task as I've done it 3 times now, but can do it in 8 hours now I roeckon. Then drive it back up (5 hours) for the second half of the remap !!

[Sticky]

I still don't understand how a slippy diff works so not sure whether that will have any positive or negative effect on how Nev's gearbox will mechanically cope with that level power.

I would be concerned about the internals coping with the (awesome) power and torque The ATB is the least of the long term problems